The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

I know this is a strange idea and some would say I have too many ideas here at the forum but let's talk about the certainty of Jesus's existence and the certainty of the existence of people I engage at the forum everyday.

When I come to the forum I am greeted by a number of 'individuals' who I assume to have 'reality' outside of the forum. In other words, if I meet someone with a 'real sounding name' I naturally assume that this 'real sounding person' is real.

Of course my name is not 'Secret Alias' but everyone knows who I am. There are other posters who I deal with such as David Hinley who I can readily check up on Google and I know he is a real person by that name living in Ohio somewhere. I can see Peter Kirby is a real person by looking at Facebook where we are friends and I see he has a wife and he lives in California. But there are other people at the forum who are less easy to figure out. Some have an alias which we recognize to be 'mythical names' or identities and we go on knowing that 'Bozo the Clown' is probably named 'John C Smith' or something like that. But if - let's say - there was a poster named 'John C Smith' it becomes a little different.

I might engage 'John C Smith' thinking that there is a real guy named John C Smith but he is just a mouthpiece for another more famous guy - let's say Bart Ehrman for example. I might not know that Ehrman has a 'real sounding' identity like that. But let's suppose that he comes to the forum under this alias in order to experiment with ideas and engage people in an intellectual forum such as this to further his academic ends. But for all intents and purposes in this microcosm - let's call it a 'world' - 'John C Smith' is taken to be a historical person but really he's a fake, he's a myth.

In the same way in the ancient world, let's suppose there was someone like Paul who was a real person, or Josephus or whomever you think might have been an active person in the late first century. And since they didn't have the internet let's suppose that he wrote a book - let's call it the gospel, a title influenced by Isaiah 40. Why is the creation of a main protagonist 'Jesus' or even 'Paul' for that matter - a main protagonist who is wholly fictitious - an alias as it were - any different or any more unbelievable than a poster named 'John C Smith' who is just an alias for a famous Biblical scholar outside of this forum?

I am just trying to wrap my head around the idea that the gospel writer inventing a fictitious 'Jesus' is so unbelievable. I bring up the forum because it would be quite ironic or incredibly relevant if many of us engaged with someone (especially those who think that Jesus was a historical person) who has a real sounding name assuming that this person had an existence (i.e. living in a certain part of the United States and had a career we figured out from doing a Google search of a bio he crafted at the beginning of this century) but all these assumptions turn out to be completely false. What if Acharya S was really a sock puppet of Robert Tulip (I know that's not true but I bring it up as an example), what if 'David Hinley' was really a sock puppet for Elaine Pagels (again I know that's not true)?

Couldn't Bart Ehrman creating an online personality 'John C Smith' in 2005 and 'reactivating' this alias from time to time be kind of like Paul creating 'Jesus'? What's the difference?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Jax
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Jax »

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't take it any more! OK! Fine! You outed me!

I'm really Robert Eisenman! Not John T not John 2! Me! Jax!

Happy?

God! Give it a rest already. Seriously!
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Jax
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Jax »

^ Oh yeah. Ben C. Smith is really Mark Goodacre.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

No I am merely suggesting that in the same way Paul could have invented a fictitious Jesus for his professional purposes someone in the modern age could have established a real sounding identity and used in a forum such as this. My purpose is to change the nature of the discussion from 'this sort of thing could never happen' (i.e. the invention of fictitious but realistic sounding names) because our modern age wouldn't allow for it to - even today many of us probably have engaged with a fictitious person whom we assumed to be a real person. The Russians actively create fake personalities. Why not Paul?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Jax
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Jax »

As for a forum, does it really matter what someone calls themselves? Real or alias, it doesn't really matter, all that matters is the content of their posts. And really, I someone like Ehrman wants to put out feelers to test new ideas, more power to him. This really should be encouraged IMHO.

As for Paul being an alias.... how could we ever know?
Secret Alias
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

But given that it's Xmas and I am bored. Let's play devil's advocate. 'Famous scholars' have frequented this forum. From my best knowledge they did not use 'real sounding identities' - i.e. XKV8OR or whatever Robert Cargill used here could not be mistaken for 'real historical person.' But are you telling me that a 'John C Smith' or 'Sam P Shepherd' hasn't existed at this forum who most of us took to be a historical person living in a real historical place with a real historical occupation which was other than the puppet master who invented the personality? No I certain this has happened. Thus a fictitious Jesus as a sock puppet for a famous individual isn't out of the question either.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

Didn't Golb's son invent a Schiffman personality at a forum like this? I am telling you it has happened and will happen and all of us 'think' we are talking to 'John C Smith' but really we're talking to the head of a religious studies program. The guy we think is a historical person isn't real. As such a mythical Jesus is only a stone's throw away.

We think David Hinley is an insurance adjuster. He's a real person. But what if someone told us he was a carpenter or an architect in the course of our discussions or he lived in Louisiana or he's thirty years old or he's married or gay or single and we just assumed that there happens to be a gay architect at the forum from Louisiana with an interest in the Bible. We live in an age where information can be scrutinized and mythical people could exist in our midst. That's a significant discovery with respect to the study of the historical Jesus.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Jax
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Jax »

Well, how can Jesus be a sock puppet for Paul when Paul doesn't ever quote said Jesus?
Secret Alias
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Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

But the Marcionites clearly thought he wrote the gospel. Inventing Mark, Matthew and the rest of the stooges was just a way of interfering with that reality. The Marcionite also denied Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were real people or at least they weren't real people who had direct knowledge of Jesus's activities and wrote gospels.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: The Mythicist Jesus and Mythical Posters Here at the Forum

Post by Secret Alias »

Sock puppets everywhere. Sock puppets as a strategy ... two thousand years ago until today.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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