The demons and the scribes

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

The demons and the scribes

Post by Giuseppe »

Giuseppe wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:15 am
Only, this has derived my attention:
Mark 3.22: 22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, "He is possessed by Beelzebul," and "He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons."
Is there some causal link between the provenance of the scribes "from Jerusalem" and their accusation that Jesus is friend of the (Galilean?) demons?
If the exorcisms in the real History are the baptism of the Pagans, then the scribes (the Judaizers) don't like that the Gospel was preached among the Pagans. Or better: they don't like that the Gospel is gentilized in order to be given to the Pagans.

There is a distinction between who wants that the Gospel is not preached openly among the Pagans and who wants to conserve it in a Jewish secrecy.

So the fact is that the Judaizers are for the secrecy, the Paulines are for the open propaganda: but the irony is that the real outsiders are just the Judaizing 12 apostles (even if shown as insiders in Mc 4:11-12) while the real insiders are "those out" (even if shown as outsiders in Mc 4:11-12).

There is a historical kernel behind this dualism: Paul in 1 Cor 2:6-8 was really speaking a bit more than usual to outsiders about a mystery reserved only for insiders ("the perfects"). If it was reserved to only perfects, why did Paul put the secret in scripture, afterall? The secret is only declared orally. This says us that the paulines were more and more anti-insiders. If nothing is arrived to us from the Pillars, it is because they were reluctant to put in scripture their secret revelations. Paul may be became so important just because he WROTE something (to reveal it to outsiders).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: The demons and the scribes

Post by Giuseppe »

This pauline inclination to make more and more public their secret Gospel may explain why the Earliest Written Gospel had to be gentile and pauline (and not at all judeo-christian). The real "conservative" Christians - those who would have denied any historicist Gospel as a "progressist" blasphemy - are to be expected just them: the Judaizers followers of the Pillars.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: The demons and the scribes

Post by Giuseppe »

Therefore:

1) the Judaizers had more need of preserving their original mythical Jesus than the paulines.

2) the ebionites were Judaizers but they show a contradiction: some ebionites had reduced Jesus to a mere man, other ebionites had exalted Jesus as an archangel.

3) the contrdiction is resolved if the true original ebionites were just the elkeseans (adoring an archangelic Jesus).

4) the historicist Epiphanius believed wrongly that the ebionites came before, while the elkeseans came after. Really, the contrary was true:

5) the elkeseans, as the true ebionites, are evidence of a mythical Jesus survived in proto-catholic times and witnessed by Epiphanius.

At first this Ebion (the supposed founder of the Ebionites) determined for himself that Christ was born from the seed of man, that is from Joseph. But from a certain time up to now among his followers different things are told about Christ since they have turned their minds to chaotic and impossible things. I suppose that after Elxaios had joined them, the false prophet <whom I mentioned before> in connection with the so-called Sampsenes and Ossenes and Elkeseans, they started to tell some fantastic ideas about Christ and the Holy Spirit . . . For some of them say that Christ is also Adam, the first man created and breathed into by God’s inspiration . . . Others say . . . that he came in
Adam and appeared to the patriarchs clothed with a body
.
(Pan. 30.3.2–5)
I have already explained above that Ebion did not yet know these matters (viz. the invocation of seven non-human witnesses) but that after some time, when his followers had joined Elxai, they retained from Ebion circumcision and the Sabbath and the customs, but from
Elxai the phantasy, so as to suppose that Christ is some manlike figure, invisible to men, ninety-six miles long.
(Epiphanius, Panarion 30.17.5–6)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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