false reports about jesus.

[theterminator]

when robert m price debated james white , jon from the blog " prove me wrong" summarised price's response like this :

"Second, the claim that Jesus and the disciples would have prevented error from accruing, which is a common evangelical argument, is disproved by the contents of the gospels themselves and contrary to what our expectations would be. In the gospels we're told that Jesus himself couldn't prevent listeners from telling tales he didn't want told. The gospels tell us that false reports concerning Jesus circulated widely and in fact Jesus directed the disciples to not bother correcting them. Making up things was considered pious and acceptable in this culture. Gnostic teaching was accepted widely. Gospel reports indicate erroneous resurrection belief. John the Baptist was thought to be raised but this is a case of mistaken identity. This is proof that this error is easy to make. In the Gospel of John we're told that Jesus did say he'd destroy the temple in 3 days, but John allegorizes the story. Mark and Matthew tell us that Jesus said no such thing and only false witnesses say he did. Luke says that Steven is reported to have said it. Look at every day experience. What preacher hasn't been chagrined to learn what others have thought him to have said? Look at the fact that rabbis can't keep straight who it is that supposedly uttered a statement, attributing the same wise saying to various sages. Why does Mt 10 tell us that Jesus wanted the gospel to go only to the Jews, Mt 28 says he wanted it spread far and wide, and yet at Acts 15 they're debating whether the gospel should go to Gentiles as if they've never heard of the great commission?"

the only false report i can think of is matthews claim that the guards spread the story that the deciples came to the tomb and stole jesus' dead body.
any other widely circulated false reports with in the gospels?

[andrewcriddle]

I think there may be a blurring together here of two issues.
a/ people spreading basically true reports of things they were asked to keep confidential, (widespread according to the Gospels.)
b/ people spreading false reports, ( less frequent according to the Gospels.)

Andrew Criddle

[Tenorikuma]

The trial account in Mark 14 attests to false reports circulating about Jesus.

vv. 57-58: Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’”

Ironically, the Gospel of John insists that Jesus actually said that very thing.

[arnoldo]

The trial account in Mark 14 attests to false reports circulating about Jesus.

vv. 57-58: Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’”

Ironically, the Gospel of John insists that Jesus actually said that very thing.

Ironically, Anthony Le Donne uses "false reports" to argue for the historicity of Jesus.

Historical Jesus: What Can We Know and how Can We Know It?

[DCHindley]

The trial account in Mark 14 attests to false reports circulating about Jesus.

vv. 57-58: Some stood up and gave false testimony against him, saying, “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’”

Ironically, the Gospel of John insists that Jesus actually said that very thing.

Ironically, Anthony Le Donne uses "false reports" to argue for the historicity of Jesus.

Historical Jesus: What Can We Know and how Can We Know It?

Actually, I can see where Le Donne is coming from.

For some while I have suggested that the Gospels we have were written not to edify the faithful or record for history Jesus' actual doings, but to make apology for him in the face of negative perceptions about him and what he represented.

What this kind of apology does is acknowledge what among the charges and perceptions of the outsiders that Christians of the Gospel writer's time had to accept as having some truth to it, and thus "explain" as something else that is not objectionable, or at least excusable, and how it had come to be "misunderstood" by outsiders.

Although I think that these "apologies" were directed at outsiders, they later also became something believers could use to edify one another in the face of outsider criticism.

While I hate to do it, here is what Wikipedia says of apologetics:

The term apologetics etymologically derives from the Classical Greek word apologia. In the Classical Greek legal system two key technical terms were employed: the prosecution delivered the kategoria (κατηγορία), and the defendant replied with an apologia [ἀπολογία]. To deliver an apologia meant making a formal speech or giving an explanation to reply and rebut the charges, as in the case of Socrates' defense. ...

As the world's religions have encountered one another, apologetics and apologists from within their respective faiths have emerged. Some of these apologetics respond to or fight back against the arguments of other religions and secularism (sic); others are pure defense.

That last paragraph seems to have been added by a Christian apologist "explaining" the practice among adherents of religions, although the POV of that author is clearly Christian, as betrayed by the code word "secularism."

Since pretty much all Hellenistic Jewish literature was to some extent apologetic, here is a list of Hellenized Jewish writers who are believed to have preceded the 1st century CE Jewish writers who had written formal "apologies" for their ancestral traditions and Law (Philo, Apology for the Jews, mid 1st century CE, and Josephus, Contra Apion, late 1st century CE):

James H Charlesworth, ed., The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Vol 2, TOC (1985)

SUPPLEMENT

FRAGMENTS OF LOST JUDEO-HELLENISTIC WORKS

POETRY
Philo the Epic Poet (Third to Second Century B.C.) H. Attridge 781
Theodotus (Second to First Century B.C.) F. Fallon 785

ORACLE
Orphica (Second Century B.C.-First Century A.D.) M. Lafargue 795

DRAMA
Ezekiel the Tragedian (Second Century B.C.) R. G. Robertson 803

OTHER
Fragments of Pseudo-Greek Poets (Third to Second Century B.C.) H. Attridge 821

PHILOSOPHY
Aristobulus (Second Century B.C.) A. Yarbro Collins 831

CHRONOGRAPHY
Demetrius the Chronographer (Third Century B.C.) J. Hanson 843

HISTORY
Aristeas the Exegete (prior to First Century B.C.) R. Doran 855
Eupolemus (prior to First Century B.C.) F. Fallon 861
Pseudo-Eupolemus (prior to First Century B.C.) R. Doran 873
Cleodemus Malchus (prior to First Century B.C.) R. Doran 883

ROMANCE
Artapanus (Third to Second Century B.C.) J. J. Collins 889

APPENDIX
Pseudo-Hecataeus (Second Century B.C.-First Century A.D.) R. Doran 905

Besides Pseudo-Hecataeus, a Hellenized Jew writing in the name of a real life gentile writer, Hecataeus, who was sympathetic to Jews in general, other Jews wrote propaganda in the name of pagan divines, such as the Sibylline Oracles and the writings known as Orphica. The former were attempts to convert pagans to Judaism, or at least precondition them to acquiesce to what the Sibyl portrayed as the end-times establishment of a Jewish led empire to topple the Romans. The latter simply wanted to introduce Jewish ethics and philosophic elements into the Neo-Platonic process of integration of revealed religion into their philosophy (2nd - 3rd century CE).

The crux of the matter is that where there is smoke there is fire. I think it is entirely possible to postulate what was real and what was imagined in the charges and the defenses made against Christians and their founder.

DCH