At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Post by Secret Alias »

It is difficult to make sense of Tertullian's Against Hermogenes. As noted by previous scholarship it is likely a rewriting of Theophilus's treatise of the same name. But it is worth noting that where the treatise makes sense it seems to argue things already present in Jewish theology - most particularly Philo's understanding of everything before Genesis 2:4 as representing Plato's 'realm of ideas.' Here it is:
I now return to the several points by means of which he thought that Matter was signified. And first I will inquire about the terms. For we read only of one of them, Earth; the other, namely Matter, we do not meet with. I ask, then, since Matter is not mentioned in Scripture, how the term earth can be applied to it, which marks a substance of another kind? There is all the greater need why mention should also have been made of Matter, if this has acquired the further sense of Earth, in order that I may be sure that Earth is one and the same name as Matter, and so not claim the designation for merely one substance, as the proper name thereof, and by which it is better known; or else be unable (if I should feel the inclination), to apply it to some particular species of Mater, instead, indeed, of making it the common term of all Matter. For when a proper name does not exist for that thing to which a common term is ascribed, the less apparent is the object to which it may be ascribed, the more capable will it be of being applied to any other object whatever. Therefore, even supposing that Hermogenes could show us the name Matter, he is bound to prove to us further, that the same object has the surname Earth, in order that he may claim for it both designations alike.

He accordingly maintains that there are two earths set before us in the passage in question: one, which God made in the beginning; the other being the Matter of which God made the world, and concerning which it is said, "And the earth was without form, and void." Of course, if I were to ask, to which of the two earths the name earth is best suited, I shall be told that the earth which was made derived the appellation from that of which it was made, on the ground that it is more likely that the offspring should get its name from the original, than the original from the offspring. This being the case, another question presents itself to us, whether it is right and proper that this earth which God made should have derived its name from that out of which He made it? For I find from Hermogenes and the rest of the Materialist heretics, that while the one earth was indeed "without form, and void," this one of ours obtained from God in an equal degree both form, and beauty, and symmetry; and therefore that the earth which was created was a different thing from that out of which it was created. Now, having become a different thing, it could not possibly have shared with the other in its name, after it had declined from its condition. If earth was the proper name of the (original) Matter, this world of ours, which is not Matter, because it has become another thing, is unfit to bear the name of earth, seeing that that name belongs to something else, and is a stranger to its nature. But (you will tell me) Matter which has undergone creation, that is, our earth, had with its original a community of name no less than of kind. By no means. For although the pitcher is formed out of the clay, I shall no longer call it clay, but a pitcher; so likewise, although electrum236 is compounded of gold and silver, I shall yet not call it either gold or silver, but electrum. When there is a departure from the nature of any thing, there is likewise a relinquishment of its name-with a propriety which is alike demanded by the designation and the condition. How great a change indeed from the condition of that earth, which is Matter, has come over this earth of ours, is plain even from the fact that the latter has received this testimony to its goodness in Genesis, "And God saw that it was good; "237 while the former, according to Hermogenes, is regarded as the origin and cause of all evils. Lastly, if the one is Earth because the other is, why also is the one not Matter as the other is? Indeed, by this rule both the heaven and all creatures ought to have had the names of Earth and Matter, since they all consist of Matter. I have said enough touching the designation Earth, by which he will have it that Matter is understood. This, as everybody knows, is the name of one of the elements; for so we are taught by nature first, and afterwards by Scripture, except it be that credence must be given to that Silenus who talked so confidently in the presence of king Midas of another world, according to the account of Theopompus. But the same author informs us that there are also several gods.

Chapter XXVI.-The Method Observed in the History of the Creation, in Reply to the Perverse Interpretation of Hermogenes.

We, however, have but one God, and but one earth too, which in the beginning God made.238 The Scripture, which at its very outset proposes to run through the order thereof tells us as its first information that it was created; it next proceeds to set forth what sort of earth it was.239 In like manner with respect to the heaven, it informs us first of its creation-"In the beginning God made the heaven: "240 it then goes on to introduce its arrangement; how that God both separated "the water which was below the firmament from that which was above the firmament,"241 and called the firmament heaven,242 -the very thing He had created in the beginning. Similarly it (afterwards) treats of man: "And God created man, in the image of God made He him."243 It next reveals how He made him: "And (the Lord) God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."244 Now this is undoubtedly245 the correct and fitting mode for the narrative. First comes a prefatory statement, then follow the details in full;246 first the subject is named, then it is described.247 How absurd is the other view of the account,248 when even before he249 had premised any mention of his subject, i.e. Matter, without even giving us its name, he all on a sudden promulged its form and condition, describing to us its quality before mentioning its existence,-pointing out the figure of the thing formed, but concealing its name! But how much more credible is our opinion, which holds that Scripture has only subjoined the arrangement of the subject after it has first duly described its formation and mentioned its name! Indeed, how full and complete250 is the meaning of these words: "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth; but251 the earth was without form, and void,"252 -the very same earth, no doubt, which God made, and of which the Scripture had been speaking at that very moment.253 For that very "but"254 is inserted into the narrative like a clasp,255 (in its function) of a conjunctive particle, to connect the two sentences indissolubly together: "But the earth." This word carries back the mind to that earth of which mention had just been made, and binds the sense thereunto.256 Take away this "but," and the tie is loosened; so much so that the passage, "But the earth was without form, and void," may then seem to have been meant for any other earth.

Chapter XXVII.-Some Hair-Splitting Use of Words in Which His Opponent Had Indulged.

But you next praise your eyebrows, and toss back your head, and beckon with your finger, in characteristic disdain,257 and say: There is the was, looking as if it pointed to an eternal existence,-making its subject, of course, unbegotten and unmade, and on that account worthy of being supposed to be Matter. Well now, for my own part, I shall resort to no affected protestation,258 but simply reply that "was" may be predicated of everything-even of a thing which has been created, which was born, which once was not, and which is not your Matter. For of everything which has being, from whatever source it has it, whether it has it by a beginning or without a beginning, the word "was" will be predicated from the very fact that it exists. To whatever thing the first tense259 of the verb is applicable for definition, to the same will be suitable the later form260 of the verb, when it has to descend to relation. "Est" (it is) forms the essential part261 of a definition, "erat" (it was) of a relation. Such are the trifles and subtleties of heretics, who wrest and bring into question the simple meaning of the commonest words. A grand question it is, to be sure,262 whether "the earth was," which was made! The real point of discussion is, whether "being without form, and void," is a state which is more suitable to that which was created, or to that of which it was created, so that the predicate (was) may appertain to the same thing to which the subject (that which was) also belongs.263 Chap, XXVIII.-A Curious Inconsistency IN Hermogenes Exposed. Certain Expressions IN The History OF Creation Vindicated IN The True Sense.

But we shall show not only that this condition264 agreed with this earth of ours, but that it did not agree with that other (insisted on by Hermogenes). For, inasmuch as pure Matter was thus subsistent with God,265 without the interposition indeed of any element at all (because as yet there existed nothing but itself and God), it could not of course have been invisible. Because, although Hermogenes contends that darkness was inherent in the substance of Matter, a position which we shall have to meet in its proper place,266 yet darkness is visible even to a human being (for the very fact that there is the darkness is an evident one), much more is it so to God. If indeed it267 had been invisible, its quality would not have been by any means discoverable. How, then, did Hermogenes find out268 that that substance was "without form," and confused and disordered, which, as being invisible, was not palpable to his senses? If this mystery was revealed to him by God, he ought to give us his proof. I want to know also, whether (the substance in question) could have been described as "void." That certainly is "void" which is imperfect. Equally certain is it, that nothing can be imperfect but that which is made; it is imperfect when it is not fully made.269 Certainly, you admit. Matter, therefore, which was not made at all, could not have been imperfect; and what was not imperfect was not "void." Having no beginning, because it was not made, it was also unsusceptible of any void-condition.270 For this void-condition is an accident of beginning. The earth, on the contrary, which was made, was deservedly called "void." For as soon as it was made, it had the condition of being imperfect, previous to its completion.

Chapter XXIX.-The Gradual Development of Cosmical Order Out of Chaos in the Creation, Beautifully Stated.

God, indeed, consummated all His works in a due order; at first He paled them out,271 as it were, in their unformed elements, and then He arranged them272 in their finished beauty. For He did not all at once inundate light with the splendour of the sun, nor all at once temper darkness with the moon's assuaging ray.273 The heaven He did not all at once bedeck274 with constellations and stars, nor did He at once fill the seas with their teeming monsters.275 The earth itself He did not endow with its varied fruitfulness all at once; but at first He bestowed upon it being, and then He filled it, that it might not be made in vain.276 For thus says Isaiah: "He created it not in vain; He formed it to be inhabited."277 Therefore after it was made, and while awaiting its perfect state,278 it was "without form, and void: ""void" indeed, from the very fact that it was without form (as being not yet perfect to the sight, and at the same time unfurnished as yet with its other qualities);279 and "without form," because it was still covered with waters, as if with the rampart of its fecundating moisture,280 by which is produced our flesh, in a form allied with its own. For to this purport does David say:281 "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and all that dwell therein: He hath rounded it upon the seas, and on the streams hath He established it."282 It was when the waters were withdrawn into their hollow abysses that the dry land became conspicuous,283 which was hitherto covered with its watery envelope. Then it forthwith becomes "visible,"284 God saying, "Let the water be gathered together into one mass,285 and let the dry land appear."286 "Appear," says He, not "be made." It had been already made, only in its invisible condition it was then waiting287 to appear. "Dry," because it was about to become such by its severance from the moisture, but yet "land." "And God called the dry land Earth,"288 not Matter. And so, when it afterwards attains its perfection, it ceases to be accounted void, when God declares, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed after its kind, and cording to its likeness, and the fruit-tree yielding fruit, whose seed is in itself, after its kind."289 Again: "Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, after their kind."290 Thus the divine Scripture accomplished its full order. For to that, which it had at first described as "without form (invisible) and void," it gave both visibility and completion. Now no other Matter was "without form (invisible) and void." Henceforth, then, Matter will have to be visible and complete. So that I must291 see Matter, since it has become visible. I must likewise recognize it as a completed thing, so as to be able to gather from it the herb bearing seed, and the tree yielding fruit, and that living creatures, made out of it, may minister to my need. Matter, however, is nowhere,292 but the Earth is here, confessed to my view. I see it, I enjoy it, ever since it ceased to be "without form (invisible), and void." Concerning it most certainly did Isaiah speak when he said, "Thus saith the Lord that created the heavens, He was the God that formed the earth, and made it."293 The same earth for certain did He form, which He also made. Now how did He form294 it? Of course by saying, "Let the dry land appear."295 Why does He command it to appear, if it were not previously invisible? His purpose was also, that He might thus prevent His having made it in vain, by rendering it visible, and so fit for use. And thus, throughout, proofs arise to us that this earth which we inhabit is the very same which was both created and formed296 by God, and that none other was "Without form, and void," than that which had been created and formed. It therefore follows that the sentence, "Now the earth was without form, and void," applies to that same earth which God mentioned separately along with the heaven.297

Chapter XXX.-Another Passage in the Sacred History of the Creation, Released from the Mishandling of Hermogenes.

The following words will in like manner apparently corroborate the conjecture of Hermogenes, "And darkness was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the water;298 as if these blended299 substances, presented us with arguments for his massive pile of Matter.300 Now, so discriminating an enumeration of certain and distinct elements (as we have in this passage), which severally designates" darkness," "the deep" "the Spirit of God," "the waters," forbids the inference that anything confused or (from such confusion) uncertain is meant. Still more, when He ascribed to them their own places,301 "darkness on the face of the deep," "the Spirit upon the face of the waters," He repudiated all confusion in the substances; and by demonstrating their separate position,302 He demonstrated also their distinction. Most absurd, indeed, would it be that Matter, which is introduced to our view as "without form," should have its "formless" condition maintained by so many words indicative of form,303 without any intimation of what that confused body304 is, which must of course be supposed to be unique,305 since it is without form.306 For that which is without form is uniform; but even307 that which is without form, when it is blended together308 from various component parts,309 must necessarily have one outward appearance;310 and it has not any appearance, until it has the one appearance (which comes) from many parts combined.311 Now Matter either had those specific parts312 within itself, from the words indicative of which it had to be understood-I mean "darkness," and "the deep," and "the Spirit," and "the waters"-or it had them not. If it had them, how is it introduced as being "without form? "313 If it had them not, how does it become known?314

Chapter XXXI.-A Further Vindication of the Scripture Narrative of the Creation, Against a Futile View of Hermogenes.

But this circumstance, too, will be caught at, that Scripture meant to indicate of the heaven only, and this earth of yours,315 that God made it in the beginning, while nothing of the kind is said of the above-mentioned specific parts;316 and therefore that these, which are not described as having been made, appertain to unformed Matter. To this point317 also we must give an answer. Holy I Scripture would be sufficiently explicit, if it had declared that the heaven and the earth, as the very highest works of creation, were made by God, possessing of course their own special appurtenances,318 which might be understood to be implied in these highest works themselves. Now the appurtenances of the heaven and the earth, made then in the beginning, were the darkness and the deep, and the spirit, and the waters. For the depth and the darkness underlay the earth. Since the deep was under the earth, and the darkness was over the deep, undoubtedly both the darkness and the deep were under the earth. Below the heaven, too, lay the spirit319 and the waters. For since the waters were over the earth, which they covered, whilst the spirit was over the waters, both the spirit and the waters were alike over the earth. Now that which is over the earth, is of course under the heaven. And even as the earth brooded over the deep and the darkness, so also did the heaven brood over the spirit and the waters, and embrace them.Nor, indeed, is there any novelty in mentioning only that which contains, as pertaining to the whole,320 and understanding that which is contained as included in it, in its character of a portion.321 Suppose now I should say the city built a theatre and a circus, but the stage322 was of such and such a kind, and the statues were on the canal, and the obelisk was reared above them all, would it follow that, because I did not distinctly state that these specific things323 were made by the city, they were therefore not made by it along with the circus and the theatre? Did I not, indeed, refrain from specially mentioning the formation of these particular things because they were implied in the things which I had already said were made, and might be understood to be inherent in the things in which they were contained? But this example may be an idle one as being derived from a human circumstance; I will take another, which has the authority of Scripture itself. It says that "God made man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul."324 Now, although it here mentions the nostrils,325 it does not say that they were made by God; so again it speaks of skin326 and bones, and flesh and eyes, and sweat and blood, in subsequent passages,327 and yet it never intimated that they had been created by God. What will Hermogenes have to answer? That the human limbs must belong to Matter, because they are not specially mentioned as objects of creation? Or are they included in the formation of man? In like manner, the deep and the darkness, and the spirit and the waters, were as members of the heaven and the earth. For in the bodies the limbs were made, in the bodies the limbs too were mentioned. No element but what is a member of that element in which it is contained. But all elements are contained in the heaven and the earth.
This is basically how Philo interprets Genesis chapters 1 and 2. Interestingly Irenaeus and Clement accuse Marcion of defining the godhead and much else 'Platonically.' Carpocrates is accused principally of 'misunderstanding' Plato in terms of sharing bodies in common and communism. The list goes on and on.

Since Plato is a known commodity and when we see Clement's acceptance of Plato it is unconditional in contrast to Origen which is much more qualified - could it be that all heresy or at least the principle heresies (ignoring the 'Jewish' heretics in Christianity for the moment) were all Platonists?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
arnoldo
Posts: 969
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:10 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Post by arnoldo »

This article compares the gJohn to Plato's cave allegory. . .
In him [Jesus] was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness but the darkness has not understood it…[John] came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.”

And a little later in John 3 …

“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.”
JOHN’S GOSPEL AND PLATO’S CAVE

User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3411
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Post by DCHindley »

It seems that Plato provided the basis for most philosophical speculation about the "principal beings" that govern the nature of the universe. These principals were the One (encompassing Mind, Ideas, etc.), the Creator (demiurgos, master craftsman), and possibly Unformed Matter (which the craftsman shapes into fixed matter as we know it, using Ideas in the mind of the One as his or her patterns). These entities have always existed, and each one goes by a multiplicity of names, as adapted by Aristotle, the Stoa and others.

Philo adopted this as basically correct, but adapted Plato's concepts so that the One and the Creator are rolled together into the Judean God, with the exception that unformed matter was also created by God before he shaped it into the universe/world we know. The figures who do the creating, shaping and express this God's will are extensions of God, and correspond to archangels.

But Plato was not the only person to theorize about physics. The Cerdo who is often associated with Marcion had a different model than Plato. The systems most often associated with the Gnostic heretics were different again. There must have been others. These systems all borrow elements (principals, concepts, figures, active agents) from one another whenever they seemed appropriate, but drew different lines of association between these elements/principals.

As Christian doctrine developed, the concepts that were borrowed from Platonic or Philonic thought came to clash in some ways with the more newly developed Christian dogmas and the model has to be changed. Clement of Alexandria thought Philo did a right-dandy job of modifying Platonism. Origen disagreed but was not profound enough as a philosopher as is usually assumed, and had to "kludge" away the dissonance ad hoc. He used a fuller's club to whack away at the dirt.

What about this process is so important to you, SA? It seems to me to be normal everyday syncretism as happens everywhere all the time, to the present day.

DCH
andrewcriddle
Posts: 2816
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am

Re: At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Post by andrewcriddle »

One issue is that Philo and 2nd century Christians are responding to what scholars now call middle Platonism. (Which has considerable Stoic elements). Beginning in the 3rd century Christians are increasingly in dialogue with Neo-Platonism.

Andrew Criddle
User avatar
MrMacSon
Posts: 8798
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:45 pm

Re: At the Core of Most Heresies is Platonism

Post by MrMacSon »

andrewcriddle wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:11 amOne issue is that Philo and 2nd century Christians are responding to what scholars now call middle Platonism. (Which has considerable Stoic elements). Beginning in the 3rd century Christians are increasingly in dialogue with Neo-Platonism.
Neoplatonism started with Plotinus in the 3rd century CE.

"Neoplatonism synthesized ideas from various philosophical and religious cultural spheres. The most important forerunners from Greek philosophy were the Middle Platonists, such as Plutarch, and the Neopythagoreans, especially Numenius of Apamea. Philo, a Hellenized Jew, translated Judaism into terms of Stoic, Platonic and Neopythagorean elements, and held that God is "supra rational" and can be reached only through "ecstasy." Philo also held that the oracles of God supply the material of moral and religious knowledge." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism#Hellenism
Post Reply