A particular feature of the Testimonium Flavianum

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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A particular feature of the Testimonium Flavianum

Post by Giuseppe »

One of the problems with a historical Jesus is the following:

Assume that Josephus described someone like Jesus ben Ananias, complete of a death by crucifixion (under Pilate) but without mention of the post-resurrection stories.

Assume that this guy was named "Jesus Ben X" with "X" different from Joseph.

Well, even so are we so sure that this hypothetical "Jesus Ben X" was the same Gospel Jesus? And if yes, was he the real cause of the process that ended in a Gospel or was he only someone used as midrashic source by the first evangelist?

Therefore what is necessary to confirm the existence of the Gospel Jesus is not only at least an extra-Christian evidence (by someone like Josephus) but also an independent and reliable mention of the causal link
"death of Jesus--->birth of the cult of Christ".

The Testimonium Flavianum seems the only kind of "evidence" of this type where both the two requisites would be satisfied (if only the TF was authentic).

Note that "Jesus called Christ" of Ant. 20:200 works too in the same direction: existence of the man + the his identity in the eyes of others.

So also the Testimonium Taciteum.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: A particular feature of the Testimonium Flavianum

Post by Giuseppe »

More precisely, "Jesus called Christ" can explain who is Jesus only for who is Christian. Idem the Testimonium Taciteum.

Only the Testimonium Flavianum describes relatively more in detail "how Jesus became god" to a Pagan, too.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
OptimisticEndeavor
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Re: A particular feature of the Testimonium Flavianum

Post by OptimisticEndeavor »

Why would Josephus go out of his way to report such hearsay? The TF is a brief interjection on a man of a note who lived around the time frame Josephus was discussing. No need to get into the specifics of Christian belief, or even risk giving Christians credibility. And we can speculate that there's a very oblique reference to the ressurection when Josephus says that those who loved Jesus did not forsake him, even after his death.
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MrMacSon
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Re: A particular feature of the Testimonium Flavianum

Post by MrMacSon »

OptimisticEndeavor wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:04 pm .. The TF is a brief interjection on a man of a note who lived around the time frame Josephus was discussing. ...
What time frame was Josephus discussing?
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