Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Ulan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:46 pm Leaving aside for a moment that we are most probably looking at a medieval prop that was used to defraud people, you are aware that tens of thousands of Jews were crucified in Judea of the first century?

pavurcn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:04 pm

Ulan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:46 pm Leaving aside for a moment that we are most probably looking at a medieval prop that was used to defraud people, you are aware that tens of thousands of Jews were crucified in Judea of the first century?

I'm not at all sure of that figure of tens of thousands, but let's just go on to ask how many had their shrouds preserved up till now with markings that parallel so many features in the gospel accounts?

My estimate is one.

Ulan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:15 pm
I must admit that my main interest in this thread is how so many people, some of them even scientists, cling to this kind of story which is an obvious fake.

“Avignon and the Shroud of Turin: Authenticity Confirmed” by Jack Markwardt.
The circumstances which surround the fourteenth-century exhibitions of the Shroud in the small French hamlet of Lirey continue to confound historians. The initial expositions go unreferenced in Vatican archives and appear to have proceeded without papal approval. With regard to the later expositions, the sanctioning Pope concealed his reasons for allowing them to take place, silenced a bishop who alleged the relic’s fraudulence, and issued three inconsistent bulls regarding how the cloth was to be described when exhibited. In addition, both the relic’s owners and the Church never publicly disclosed its provenance. This paper will resolve all of the mysteries which surround the Lirey exhibitions and demonstrate that, before they were permitted to commence, the Church determined that the Shroud of Turin was an authentic relic of Jesus Christ. For five centuries thereafter, the Vatican referred to the Shroud as Jesus’ actual burial cloth; however, for reasons which this paper will reveal, the Church now alludes to the relic as an icon, or image.

pavurcn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:28 pm Interesting question about the kind of wrapping. Was it in strips like mummies? Here is one article ...

A reader writes: ... John 20:5-7 says ... This indicates that there was at least three pieces of fabric that Jesus was wrapped in. So my question is "how can the shroud be His"? My faith lies in what the Bible says, not what scientists say.

pavurcn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:28 pmthat points to a far more philological one.

Figure 1. Body wrapped “according to the custom of the Jews.”(Based on forensic analysis of the image on the Turin Shroud.)

Further evidence for the Shroud as an art object comes from what might be called the "Mercator projection" argument. The shroud in two dimensions presents a three-dimensional image projected onto a planar (two-dimensional) surface, just as in a photograph or painting. This perspective is consistent with both painting and with image formation using a bas relief