The date of the epistle of Barnabas.

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Peter Kirby
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Re: The date of the epistle of Barnabas.

Post by Peter Kirby »

Stuart wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:19 am
Peter Kirby wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:37 pm Prediction of a rebuilding of the temple had a limited window of time for the hoping, setting the terminus ad quem at 135.
That requires buying into the theory that it
a) refers to Aelia Capitolina and that specific time
b) that it refers to a physical temple
c) that it was "timely" in it's reference, and not tardy

Other evidence points to a later date, and that at least one of the above three assumption must be wrong. But I would go further and say that the entire document is something of a snowball. The chapters 1-4 (through 5.7) are missing from most manuscripts, and the Didache is quite separate piece (missing in one Old Latin version). So when you are dating you are dating sections. BTW, the elements discussed have been in the early sections the first five chapters which are missing from the manuscripts derived from G. But these chapters are present in Sinaiticus (ℵ, 4th/5th century) and Hierosolymitanus (H, 11th century).

We are dealing with many traditions in this document from different eras. I would object on grounds that cherry picking the earliest, and assuming early Gospel dates, which would be needed for a 135 terminus, is not likely to hold up.
MrMacSon wrote: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:19 am
Peter Kirby wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:37 pm Prediction of a rebuilding of the temple had a limited window of time for the hoping, setting the terminus ad quem at 135.
Peter Kirby wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:46 pm ... The alternative is assuming that the text would be retrofitted with something that the author knows will not come to pass ...

Hi Peter. I presume you're referring to
Stuart wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:13 pm
The epistle of Barnabas is ... mentioned by Origen (mid-3rd century) and Clement (early 3rd century)

The assumption that it was written in the early 130s with the Romans building Aelia Capitolina based on ... verses 16.3–4

Furthermore he says again, 'Behold, those who tore down this temple will themselves build it.' It is happening. For because of their fighting it was torn down by the enemies. And now the very servants of the enemies will themselves rebuild it.

But this assumes predictive language is immediate and current. However most Christian literature puts up a fiction of earlier time for claim of authenticity. ....

I would instead put an early terminus on 131 AD and a late terminus around 215 AD for Clement's mention. The fact that Barnabas 4:14 quotes Matthew 22:14 "many are called but few are chosen" as scripture suggests a much later date, when NT was considered Scripture. This would suggest a date not earlier than the second half of the 2nd century if not the start of the 3rd century ...

But post-Bar Kokhba dating is also suggested by the taking of Torah Law as spiritual ...

Interestingly,

.
Mishnah Shekalim 1.5

"And thus is it stated by Ezra ... [ (Ezra 4:21): "Let us build (the Temple) with you, for as you, will we seek out G d, etc." - What did they answer?] (Ibid. 4):
  • "It is not for you and us to build a house to our G d". "
[Composed in Talmudic Israel (c.190 - c.230 CE). Sheqalim (Shekels) belongs to the second order, Moed (Festivals) and discusses the collection of the half-Shekel as well as the expenses and expenditure of the Temple.]


1 Ezra 4.1-4

1 When the adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the returned exiles were building a temple to the LORD God of Israel,

2 they approached Zerubbabel and the chiefs of the clans and said to them, “Let us build with you, since we too worship your God, having offered sacrifices to Him since the time of King Esarhaddon of Assyria, who brought us here.”

3 Zerubbabel, Jeshua, and the rest of the chiefs of the clans of Israel answered them, “It is not for you and us to build a House to our God, but we alone will build it to the LORD God of Israel, in accord with the charge that the king, King Cyrus of Persia, laid upon us.”

4 Thereupon the people of the land undermined the resolve of the people of Judah, and made them afraid to build.

https://www.sefaria.org/Ezra.4.4?lang=b ... l&lang2=en

and the epistle of Barnabas says

Barnabas 4.11
For the scripture saith; Woe unto them that are wise for themselves, and understanding in their own sight. Let us become spiritual, let us become a temple perfect unto God. As far as in us lies, let us exercise ourselves in the fear of God, [and] let us strive to keep His commandments, that we may rejoice in His ordinances.

and

Barnabas 6:15
For a holy temple unto the Lord, my brethren, is the abode of our heart.

and

Barnabas 16:1-2
Moreover I will tell you likewise concerning the temple, how these wretched men being led astray set their hope on the building, and not on their God that made them, as being a house of God.

For like the Gentiles almost they consecrated Him in the temple. But what saith the Lord abolishing the temple? Learn ye. Who hath measured the heaven with a span, or hath measured the earth with his hand? Have not I, saith the Lord? The heaven is My throne and the earth the footstool of My feet. What manner of house will ye build for Me? Or what shall be my resting place? Ye perceive that their hope is vain.
.

ie. Barnabas is variably allegorical about what a temple is, as well as hope on or in the building.
No, thank you, MrMacSon and Stuart, although I appreciate the effort.

I'd rather be right.

You don't have to work so hard that way.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Secret Alias
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Re: The date of the epistle of Barnabas.

Post by Secret Alias »

The key to Barnabas are the strange citations of a Greek translation of the Pentateuch which necessarily must be relatively early. The LXX eventually standardized the 'scriptures' to the Greek speaking world. But what appears in Barnabas is very unusual.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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