1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

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Joseph D. L.
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Joseph D. L. »

The Persian Mithra did have some connection to the goddess Anahita, whom a second century bc temple inscription calls the mother of Mithra.

The Vedic equivalent to Mithra--Mitra--was born from the goddess Aditi. He actually emerged from a celestial egg, along with eleven other gods, making twelve total, not unlike how Mithras emerges from the rock--trees and pine cones as well--with the twelve signs of the zodiac in tow.

What's more, the goddess Cybele was also believed to be the mother of Attis, and who's name means Mountainous Mother, related to the Semitic gabal, mountain. So even in the Attis cult there seems to be some variation and association of the mother and the mountain/rock motif. There's even one depiction that I'm aware of Attis emerging from a rock alter

There also maybe some correlation between this and Adam, as Adam is made from the dust of the earth, and Christ is repeatedly compared to Adam. Indeed, the writer of the Gospel of Philip goes so far as to say this:

Adam came into being from two virgins, from the Spirit and from the virgin earth. Christ therefore, was born from a virgin to rectify the Fall which occurred in the beginning.

So is it too much of a stretch to call the rock that "begat"--(Justin Martyr)--Mithras both his mother and a virgin?
pavurcn
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by pavurcn »

Kapyong wrote: Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:24 pm Gday pavurcb and all :)
pavurcn wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:19 amI wonder how many of the cited writers mentioned the Mithras cult. That might be an illuminating statistic.
Well, here is the raw list of writers who mention Mithras :
  • Herodotus
  • Xenophon
  • Strabo
  • Plutarch
  • Justin Martyr
  • Lucian of Samosata
  • Celsus
  • Claudian
  • Julian
  • Eunapius
  • Dio Cassius
Kapyong
Thank you Kapyong. How interesting that practically every pagan historian seems to have missed the Roman cult of Mithras despite its astonishing expansion in the 2d c. CE. Even Marcus Aurelius didn't even bring it up apparently. Yet no one would deny it popularity, or say it was merely a myth. See Pearse's informative page here.
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Kapyong
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Kapyong »

Gday all :)
pavurcn wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:40 pm Thank you Kapyong. How interesting that practically every pagan historian seems to have missed the Roman cult of Mithras despite its astonishing expansion in the 2d c. CE. Even Marcus Aurelius didn't even bring it up apparently. Yet no one would deny it popularity, or say it was merely a myth. See Pearse's informative page here.
No-one denied the popularity of Christianity,
no-one claimed Christianity was a myth.

Kapyong
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Kapyong wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:52 pm no-one claimed Christianity was a myth.
2 Peter 1:16

For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Dialouge With Trypho, chapter 9

"I excuse and forgive you, my friend, for you know not what you say, but have been persuaded by teachers who do not understand the Scriptures; and you speak, like a diviner, whatever comes into your mind. But if you are willing to listen to an account of Him, how we have not been deceived, and shall not cease to confess Him — although men's reproaches be heaped upon us, although the most terrible tyrant compel us to deny Him — I shall prove to you as you stand here that we have not believed empty fables, or words without any foundation but words filled with the Spirit of God, and big with power, and flourishing with grace."

For such rebuffs to be made, there first must come the accusation, unless you want to argue that the writers were refuting claims precognizant of their being made.
pavurcn
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by pavurcn »

Kapyong wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:52 pm Gday all :)
pavurcn wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:40 pm Thank you Kapyong. How interesting that practically every pagan historian seems to have missed the Roman cult of Mithras despite its astonishing expansion in the 2d c. CE. Even Marcus Aurelius didn't even bring it up apparently. Yet no one would deny it popularity, or say it was merely a myth. See Pearse's informative page here.
No-one denied the popularity of Christianity,
no-one claimed Christianity was a myth.

Kapyong
This thread began with "There were plenty of 1st and 2nd century historians or authors who might have mentioned early Christianity or Jesus of Nazareth, but didn't."

Now we can say "There were plenty of 1st and 2nd century historians or authors who might have mentioned the Roman cult of Mithras, but didn't."

Fair enough?
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Kapyong
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Kapyong »

Gday all :)
Joseph D. L. wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:28 pm For such rebuffs to be made, there first must come the accusation, unless you want to argue that the writers were refuting claims precognizant of their being made.
The issue is whether Jesus Christ was a myth or not,
not whether Christianity was a myth.

There are no claims that Christianity was a myth - 'Peter' is denying that the tales of Jesus are myths, not that the entire religion of Christianity was a myth.

Are you claiming otherwise ?


Kapyong
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Kapyong
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Kapyong »

Gday all :)
pavurcn wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:50 pm This thread began with "There were plenty of 1st and 2nd century historians or authors who might have mentioned early Christianity or Jesus of Nazareth, but didn't."

Now we can say "There were plenty of 1st and 2nd century historians or authors who might have mentioned the Roman cult of Mithras, but didn't."

Fair enough?
Sure.

Do you think there is any similarity between Mithras and Jesus - in terms of historicity ?


Kapyong
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Kapyong
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Kapyong »

Look -

It is simply not correct to claim that ANYONE ever thought Christianity was a myth.

Perhaps pavurcn meant to refer to claims that Christianity was BASED on a myth - a different thing.

Kapyong
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Kapyong
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by Kapyong »

Back to Mithras -

The list above helps us to compare the historical claims made about Jesus Christ vs the historical record.

But there are NO historical claims about Mithras to even compare.

Mithras is irrelevant here.


Kapyong
pavurcn
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Re: 1st & 2nd C writers who missed Christianity

Post by pavurcn »

The point is that historical movements can "go unmentioned" by lots of people who could have mentioned them. This speaks directly to the OP and the apparent implications of his first sentence.
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