The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:48 pm by word of mouth or letter?
Both. More oral since most people were illiterate. The fall of the temple dramatically increased the need for literary proselytizing combined with promoting their own theology against heretical views.

The passion narrative was probably written and very early, before Pauline text that was not widespread or even perceived that valuable with so many different christologies that had emerged.

The multiple christologies shows different communities telling their own version of what they believed to be true.
outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:48 pm
you fail to read what I write and jump off half-cocked thinking I must have said something else.

I only corrected what you posited about "The standard model" in which I believe you to have only posted the apologetic version, [cherry picked]

Not the historical model.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by neilgodfrey »

Dear WC, you took three comments to "explain" that you believe in the very model I described as the Acts-Eusebian model of Christian origins -- that missionaries/persons/"witnesses" of various kinds -- went out from Jerusalem spreading the word. Thank you.
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outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

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neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:56 am The historian does not misrepresent the strength of the evidence if they are professional.
Same applies to you.

If a Galilean was crucified and his death martyred as a sacrifice in the temple by Hellenist, what textual religious evidence would or could we expect to see???????????????


100% exactly what we have in text, in exactly they way we have it.

In context, there are no missing pieces or even out of line pieces that are out of place.

So far nothing has explained the evidence as well as such.

Every attempt to show a fictional or mythical core has failed, and does not even come close to matching the evidence at hand.
outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:12 pm you believe in the very model I described as the Acts-Eusebian model of Christian origins -- that missionaries/persons/"witnesses" of various kinds -- went out from Jerusalem spreading the word. Thank you.
BS you are taking me out of context. I only use Pauline and gospel text.

I factually never promoted missionaries spreading the word. Like apologist use.

I promote Hellenist going into Jerusalem and learning from other Hellenist, not any original followers. Then sharing and growing the theology in the Diaspora.

The temple only had a 35 year influence on Christianity, the majority factually evolved in the Diaspora.
outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

Avoiding context and hand waiving away solid points only shows desperation. Answer the question Neil.

If a Galilean was crucified and his death martyred as a sacrifice in the temple by Hellenist, what textual religious evidence would or could we expect to see???????????????
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by neilgodfrey »

outhouse wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:17 pm
neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:12 pm you believe in the very model I described as the Acts-Eusebian model of Christian origins -- that missionaries/persons/"witnesses" of various kinds -- went out from Jerusalem spreading the word. Thank you.
BS you are taking me out of context. I only use Pauline and gospel text.

I factually never promoted missionaries spreading the word. Like apologist use.

I promote Hellenist going into Jerusalem and learning from other Hellenist, not any original followers. Then sharing and growing the theology in the Diaspora.

The temple only had a 35 year influence on Christianity, the majority factually evolved in the Diaspora.
Dear outhouse. You are the one who has spoken about "12" going out, and now about "missionaries" going out. I never said anything like that. But thank you for repeating what I did say -- that persons of various types and in various ways went out from Jerusalem sharing what they experienced and heard, even though they may have originally being only visiting as Hellenists, etc etc etc etc.

Sorry to have to upset you so much, but you really do agree with exactly the model I labelled the Acts-Eusebian model. Your latest post confirms agreement with what I originally said.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by neilgodfrey »

outhouse wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:19 pm Avoiding context and hand waiving away solid points only shows desperation. Answer the question Neil.

If a Galilean was crucified and his death martyred as a sacrifice in the temple by Hellenist, what textual religious evidence would or could we expect to see???????????????
I have no idea what you are trying to ask. Your question is incoherent.

(Yes, outhouse, I have lost patience with you and it shows, doesn't it. I think you know why I lost my respect for you as a person.)
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outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:25 pm

I have no idea what you are trying to ask. Your question is incoherent.

Is it now? no factually it is very coherent, you under desperation cannot address the obvious. No mythicist to date can answer my question because it requires reason and logic.
outhouse
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Re: The best case for Jesus's historicity: Mark Craig

Post by outhouse »

neilgodfrey wrote: Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:25 pm

(Yes, outhouse, I have lost patience with you and it shows, doesn't it. I think you know why I lost my respect for you as a person.)
You want to mollycoddle severe fanaticism and fundamentalism that is cancer to humanity

But you could not answer the question if you wanted to. I love forcing people off the damned fe3nce they hide on. Make a stand behind your hypothesis. Attacking others is not credible.
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