Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

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Giuseppe
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Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Giuseppe »

http://www.google.it/url?q=https://book ... LrPNWKoAOQ

I haven't read the book but it seems prima facie that the historical Jesus was Joshua of Zechariah, for this author. But I may be wrong.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Paul the Uncertain »

How is McGrane an academic in your view? From the publisher's website:
Paul McGrane has a First Class Degree in English Literature from Ulster University and a Doctorate from Oxford University. He is now retired from a successful business career, both as an entrepreneur, and at board level in companies including Guinness Brewing and Prudential UK.
https://reddoorpublishing.com/project/t ... n-fallacy/
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Giuseppe »

I read:
Paul McGrane, an Oxford University academic, hopes to do for Christianity what The God Delusion did for religion in general, and having read his book one would expect him to succeed. The Christian faith was founded on the life of Jesus Christ; Mr McGrane maintains that Christ as we know him, did not even exist. Therefore since all we are left with is a fiction or a myth, we may as well substitute the Bible for Homer.
Evidently he is not a professor of biblical studies.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by neilgodfrey »

There's a publisher's blurb on amazon.co.uk

There's a preview available at google books: there you can see he lists Robert M. Price, Robert Eisenman, Daniel T. Unterbrink, Alvar Ellegard, J. Massyngberde Ford as his influencers/those he engages with. He explains that he has a partly polemical interest in writing the book. Any noticeable omissions?

There's another blurb on bookmunch -- and again on reddoorpublishing.

McGrane has a doctorate from Oxford but he only appears to address his literary degree as having relevance to the book's thesis. (Some might say if he doesn't have a doctorate in Syriac and teaching ancient Syriac at an accredited university then he's not qualified to discuss the Gospel of Thomas.)

You can also check him out on twitter: https://twitter.com/PaulSMcGrane
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Paul the Uncertain
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Paul the Uncertain »

neilgodfrey wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:48 am (Some might say if he doesn't have a doctorate in Syriac and teaching ancient Syriac at an accredited university then he's not qualified to discuss the Gospel of Thomas.)
Some might. I was just curious in what the sense the fellow was an academic, particularly since his publisher describes him as a retired businessman. That choice suggests that he's not an academic at all.

Not that there's anything wrong with not being an academic.

Giuseppe was kind enough to answer my question, and I thank him. His reason was that Lucille Turner described McGrane so. Lucille Turner is a historical novelist (and apparently not an acadmic herself), according to her site

http://www.lucilleturner.com/

which is linked from bookmunch (the site where the OP's review resides).

As you know, I'm not overawed by the difference between a historical novelist and a historian. Also, I delight in this quote from her:
I have always loved the escapism of history
Good attitude, IMO :D .
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by neilgodfrey »

Paul the Uncertain wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:42 amAlso, I delight in this quote from her:
I have always loved the escapism of history
Good attitude, IMO :D .
How do you handle the history of the Holocaust? Or the history of the rise of Islamic State? Or the demise of the aboriginal inhabitants of continents taken over by European settlers? More escapism? :consternation:
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Paul the Uncertain »

Neil
How do you handle the history of the Holocaust? Or the history of the rise of Islamic State? Or the demise of the aboriginal inhabitants of continents taken over by European settlers? More escapism?
You would have to ask the person I quoted, if you had some reservation about what she said.

Speaking for myself, I think the rise of Daesh might be a bit recent for this, but some fine historical fiction has been set in the Holocaust and other well-regarded fiction has been set in the European conquests (I am most familiar with the Americas, but I've heard rumors that there's some excellent Australian writing in a similar vein as well).

I esimate that respite from the demands of the reader's own life would be within the range of normative responses to some of this literature. So far as I can parse, my source implied no more than there was an escapist aspect to encountering history. My agreement followed my understanding.

For the record, I find your ungrounded leap to appeal to the Holocaust close enough to a Godwin to proclaim victory.

Speaking of records, this seems to be McGrane's thesis:

https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:18be6 ... 1ae59b56ac

It appears that he did a fair amount of the research during the 1970's (when he was in his 20's), and then finished up the degree work in 2008 (age 57). If so, and in light of many extant traces online of a prominent business career, McGrane seems not to have been an academic as most people use the word.
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by neilgodfrey »

My initial use of the Holocaust history was inspired by Evans' comment that Hayden White retreated from his thesis of "fiction-being-one/merging-with-fact" in response to the history of the Holocaust. And if fact is distinquishable from fiction in the history of the Holocaust, it is reasonable to expect it to be distinguishable in at least some other histories, too.

Nothing Godwin about it. It was a real-life discussion and apparent withdrawal on White's part. Evans was particularly conscious of the example because he had been a key witness in preparing a detailed report for the David Irving Holocaust Denial trial.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by neilgodfrey »

Paul the Uncertain wrote: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:20 am

Speaking for myself, I think the rise of Daesh might be a bit recent for this
The postmodernist thesis applies to all written discourse, not just to history. It applies as much to current news as ancient history. There is no cut off point, say, between today's news, last year's news, last decade's... last centuries....

To be consistent we should probably suggest that neither of us knows how much of what we are writing is fiction as opposed to non-fiction so the whole discussion itself is a bit of a pointless game.
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Re: Another academic mythicist: Paul McGrane

Post by Paul the Uncertain »

Neil

Good recovery. The fact remains that there was nothing about what I quoted to which the Holocaust was salient, and it was to that that your rebuttal was addressed.

On the merits, Ms Turner's works include a novel featuring Vlad the Impaler. We may infer that she understands that not all of history is sunny and gay. She can hardly be held personally responsible for the variety of themes in which people find escape, some of those themes being very dark. She said nothing to invite a reminder of the nature of the Holocaust or other genocidal enterprises.
There is no cut off point,
If put to proof, I can give examples of good fiction set against the Holocaust or European conquests, but not yet of good fiction set against the rise of Daesh. That may entirely be me: perhaps it is out there and I haven't learned of it.

That was the basis of the distinction I made. That is what the qualifier "Speaking for myself..." means. If that was unclear, then thank you for this chance to clarify it.
To be consistent we should probably suggest that neither of us knows how much of what we are writing is fiction as opposed to non-fiction so the whole discussion itself is a bit of a pointless game.
On the contrary, that sounds like the sort of self-knowledge that we who write might all profitably strive for.
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