Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

I think I am making progress ... finally. The Marcosian mystical system which features an unusual assumption that the episemon or digamma which was a feature of the archaic Rhegine alphabet:

https://books.google.com/books?id=X7oCA ... ic&f=false

To this end, I am fairly confident to put forward that the separate unusual features of the reporting about the Marcosians viz (1) their name Μαρκώσιοι (2) their assumptions about the diphthong ei = eta and (3) the 'remembrance' of the sixth position held by the episemon/digamma all point to contact with an archaic form of Greek.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

Something I did not know. The name of the letter 'epsilon' was εἶ so technically the Marcosians were correct in the sense the letter has two letters:
The name of the letter was originally εἶ (Ancient Greek: [êː]), but the name was changed to ἒ ψιλόν (e psilon "simple e") in the Middle Ages to distinguish the letter from the digraph αι, a former diphthong that had come to be pronounced the same as epsilon.
Coptic still retains the name ei for the fifth letter. The mystery however is why does Marcus think that ei or epsilon is the second letter in the name Jesus?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

χρειστός; χεῖ, ῥώ, εἴ, ἰῶτα, σίγμα, ταῦ, οὐ, σάν
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

οὐ was also the original name of omicron so we are making progress with the archaic greek argument.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

This would also argue for archaic Greek pronunciation (i.e. unaffected by itacism):
'For his part he does this work as a work performed by his own choice; but since they (i.e., the seven vowel sounds) serve the Mother's Purpose,30 they are imitations of the inimitable. And the first heaven utters the alpha, the next, the epsilon, the third, the eta. The fourth and midmost of the seven, pronounces the value of the iota, the fifth, the omicron, the sixth, the ypsilon. But the seventh, and fourth from the middle, cries out the sound, omega,' as Marcus' Silence affirms, who talks all sorts of nonsense but says nothing that is true (καὶ ὁ μὲν πρῶτος οὐρανὸς φθέγγεται τὸ α, ὁ δὲ μετὰ τοῦτον τὸ ε, ὁ δὲ τρίτος τὸ η, τέταρτος δὲ καὶ μέσος τῶν ἑπτὰ τὴν τοῦ ἰῶτα δύναμιν ἐκφωνεῖ, ὁ δὲ πέμπτος τὸ ο, ἕκτος δὲ τὸ υ, ἕβδομος δὲ καὶ τέταρτος ἀπὸ τοῦ μέσου τὸ ω στοιχεῖον ἐκβοᾷ, καθὼς ἡ Μάρκου Σιγὴ ἡ πολλὰ μὲν φλυαροῦσα μηδὲν δὲ ἀληθὲς λέγουσα διαβεβαιοῦται). 'These values,' she says, 'all ring out together in unison and glorify him by whom they were emitted; and the glory of the sound is sent to First Progenitor. But the echo of this praise drifts earthward,' she says, 'to become that which forms and generates the things on earth.' She gives her proof of this from the new-born babes, whose soul, as they issue from the womb, cries out the echo of each of these sounds. Thus, as the seven values glorify the Word, so the soul in infants glorifies him by weeping and wailing like Marcus. David, also, has said, 'Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings hast thou perfected praise,'32 on this account, and again, 'The heavens declare the glory of God.'33 And thus, when a soul is in trouble and misfortune, to purge itself it cries, 'Oh!' as a sign of praise, so that the soul on high will recognize its kinship with it and send it aid.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

καὶ ὁ μὲν πρῶτος οὐρανὸς φθέγγεται τὸ α, ὁ δὲ μετὰ τοῦτον τὸ ε, ὁ δὲ τρίτος τὸ η, τέταρτος δὲ καὶ μέσος τῶν ἑπτὰ τὴν τοῦ ἰῶτα δύναμιν ἐκφωνεῖ, ὁ δὲ πέμπτος τὸ ο, ἕκτος δὲ τὸ υ, ἕβδομος δὲ καὶ τέταρτος ἀπὸ τοῦ μέσου τὸ ω στοιχεῖον ἐκβοᾷ, καθὼς ἡ Μάρκου Σιγὴ ἡ πολλὰ μὲν φλυαροῦσα μηδὲν δὲ ἀληθὲς λέγουσα διαβεβαιοῦται
α-ε-η-ἰῶτα-ο-υ-ω
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

The Philosophumena is likely more original here:

Και ο μεν πρώτος ουρανός φθέγγεται το άλφα, ο δε μετά τούτον το εί, ο δε τρίτος τό ήτα, ο δε τέταρτος, ο και μέσος των επτά, την του ιώτα δύναμιν, ο δε πέμπτος το ού, έκτος δε το ύ, έβδομος δε και τέταρτος από του μέσου το ω.

Compare:

καὶ ὁ μὲν πρῶτος οὐρανὸς φθέγγεται τὸ α, ὁ δὲ μετὰ τοῦτον τὸ ε, ὁ δὲ τρίτος τὸ η, τέταρτος δὲ καὶ μέσος τῶν ἑπτὰ τὴν τοῦ ἰῶτα δύναμιν ἐκφωνεῖ, ὁ δὲ πέμπτος τὸ ο, ἕκτος δὲ τὸ υ, ἕβδομος δὲ καὶ τέταρτος ἀπὸ τοῦ μέσου τὸ ω στοιχεῖον ἐκβοᾷ,

I just don't get how ω is 'four' from the middle ...
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

The reading in the Philosophumena is better than Epiphanius's citation of Irenaeus:
Τὸ δέλτα στοιχεῖον γράμματα ἔχει ἐν ἑαυτῷ πέντε, τὸ δέλτα, καὶ τὸ εἶ, καὶ τὸ λάμβδα, καὶ τὸ ταῦ, καὶ τὸ ἄλφα, καὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα τὰ γράμματα δι᾿ ἄλλων [γράφεται γραμμάτων, καὶ τὰ ἄλλα δι᾿ ἄλλων].

The sound, delta, contains five letters: delta itself, epsilon, lamda, tau and alpha. These letters, in turn, are written with other letters and the others with others.

Τὸ δέλτα στοιχεῖον γράμματα ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἔχει πέντε, αὐτό τε τὸ δέλτα καὶ τὸ ε καὶ τὸ λάμβδα καὶ τὸ ταῦ καὶ τὸ ἄλφα, καὶ ταῦτα πάλιν τὰ γράμματα δι' ἄλλων γράφεται γραμμάτων καὶ τὰ ἄλλα δι' ἄλλων
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

Marcosian-like arguments from Augustine:

Among the symbols employed by the early Christians, that of the fish seems to have ranked first in importance. Its popularity among Christians was due principally to the famous acrostic consisting of the initial letters of five Greek words forming the word for fish (Ichthus), which words briefly but clearly described the character of Christ and the claim to worship of believers: "Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς Θεοῦ Υἱὸς Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos Theou Huios Sōtēr), meaning, Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour.[13] This explanation is given among others by Augustine in his Civitate Dei,[14] where he also notes that the generating sentence "Ίησοῦς Χρειστὸς [sic] Θεοῦ Υἱὸς Σωτήρ" has 27 letters, i.e. 3 x 3 x 3, which in that age indicated power.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Valens/Valentinus, Flora/Florinus and Marcus/Marcianus

Post by Secret Alias »

The only number I can see 'Jesus' equally is 18:

Ίησοῦς
iota-eta-sigma-ou-u-san
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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