About the Messiah son of Joseph as reaction against Marcion

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Giuseppe
Posts: 13732
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

About the Messiah son of Joseph as reaction against Marcion

Post by Giuseppe »

After the reading of this post on Vridar, I have read also the following review:
Himmelfarb concludes this chapter by emphasizing that while both the ideas of a suffering and a dying Messiah are ultimately rooted in Christian ideas, even “Sefer Zerubbabel is unwilling to attribute suffering, death, and resurrection to a single messianic figure.” (p.119) In so doing, she nicely captures her contention that Jews were both drawn to and repulsed by Christian ideas of the Messiah.
(my bold)
http://www.ancientjewreview.com/article ... zerubbabel

A very similar scenario of both ''attraction'' and ''repulsion'' is found by me in the book of Markus Vinzent, who uses the same words to describe the proto-catholic reaction against Marcion, something as:
the Christian Jews were both drawn to and repulsed by the marcionite Gospel.
I wonder if both Himmelfarb and Vinzent were really describing the same anti-marcionite reaction.

I would love very much the following reconstruction:

1) the Earliest Gospel (Mark or Mcn as you would like) didn't name no birth for Jesus and no human father for Jesus.

2) Marcion inserted that Earliest Gospel in his New Testament.

3) The marcionite New Testament provoked a Jewish and Jewish/Christian repulsion and attraction.

4) the fact described by Himmelfarb happened FOR THE FIRST TIME: Jews were both drawn to and repulsed by Christian ideas of the Messiah, therefor they invented the legend of a suffering Messiah ben Joseph etc.

5) the fact described by Vinzent happened: the proto-catholics were both drawn to and repulsed by the marcionite Gospel, therefore they inserted the Nativity episode, and Jesus became son of Joseph.

Basically, I am saying that the anti-marcionite Christians derived their idea of Jesus son of Joseph from the not-Christian Jews inventors of the legend of Messiah ben Joseph, and that both were reacting against other Gentile Christians: the marcionites.


It would be interesting to know when Himmelfarb puts the birth of the Jewish legend about a Messiah son of Joseph: around the same period of Marcion?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Post Reply