Proofs That Jesus Existed

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by Peter Kirby » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:00 am

ARGUMENT FROM HAVING A REPUTATION TO MAINTAIN
(1) If I do so much as express serious doubt about the existence of a historical Jesus, people will attack my reputation.
(2) I don't want people to attack my reputation.
(3) Therefore, Jesus existed.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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Blood
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by Blood » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:11 am

ARGUMENT FROM THE HISTORICITY OF CULT LEADERS

1. Religious cults typically start with real people
2. It's hard to believe people would start a religion around some mythical being
3. I'm just going to ignore that fact that every other ancient religion was started with a mythical being
4. Therefore, Jesus existed.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp

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Blood
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by Blood » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:45 am

RICHARD BAUCKHAM'S "HISTORIAN" ARGUMENT FROM "JESUS AND THE EYEWITNESSES"

1. Jesus is really popular in America
2. Therefore, it is urgent that the "continuing efforts of historians rather than theologians or spiritual leaders" succeed in finding the historical Jesus
3. Everybody who has written a book about the historical Jesus has been a theologian, but I'm going to pretend they're historians (including myself)
4. These historians all agree Jesus is historical and we have good eyewitness testimony
5. Therefore, Jesus existed
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp

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Blood
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by Blood » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:26 am

RICHARD BAUCKHAM'S "FORM CRITICS SCARE ME" ARGUMENT FROM "JESUS AND THE EYEWITNESSES"

1. Form critics proposed a long chain of oral transmission
2. The longer oral traditions go on, the greater likelihood of corruption or legend
3. The implications are kind of scary when you think about it
4. The form critics must have been wrong
5. The gospels actually are based on first-hand eyewitness testimony
6. Therefore, Jesus existed.
“The only sensible response to fragmented, slowly but randomly accruing evidence is radical open-mindedness. A single, simple explanation for a historical event is generally a failure of imagination, not a triumph of induction.” William H.C. Propp

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A_Nony_Mouse
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by A_Nony_Mouse » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:28 pm

Would your toast lie to you?
The religion of the priests is not the religion of the people.
Priests are just people with skin in the game and an income to lose.
-- The Iron Webmaster

Kunigunde Kreuzerin
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by Kunigunde Kreuzerin » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:59 pm

1. There was a guy who denied Jesus three times.
2. But then he had wept.
3. Therefore, Jesus existed.

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arnoldo
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by arnoldo » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:08 pm

1. Marcion creates gospels and pauline writings in the second century w/ a non-earthly (non-historical?) Jesus.

2. After altering Marcion's writings, Proto-catholics claim greater authority than Marcion since Jesus gave Peter authority while on earth.

3. Therefore, Jesus exists.

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JoeWallack
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by JoeWallack » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:17 am

ARGUMENT FROM MURDER
(1) The success of Christianity was not due to Christians' willingness to die for Jesus.
(2) The success of Christianity was due to Christians' willingness to kill for Jesus.
(3) Christians would not have been willing to kill for Jesus unless they believed he existed.
(4) Therefore, Jesus existed.

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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by JoeWallack » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:29 am

ARGUMENT FROM IRRELEVANCY
(1) Paul, the best potential witness for Jesus existence, claimed a source of information for Jesus of Revelation.
(2) (1) is irrelevant.
(3) "Mark", the next best potential witness for Jesus, used Paul as a source, discredited supposed historical witness to Jesus and was anonymous.
(4) (3) is irrelevant.
(5) Subsequent potential witnesses to Jesus, who wanted historical witness to Jesus, used Paul and "Mark" as sources even though Paul and "Mark" used sources of Revelation and were anti supposed historical witness, suggesting they had no historical witness to use as source.
(6) (5) is irrelevant.
(7) Therefore, Jesus existed.

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arnoldo
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Existed

Post by arnoldo » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:13 pm

1. Rational people do not hate persons who never existed
2. Rational people hate Jesus.
3. Therefore, Jesus existed.

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