Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

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FransJVermeiren
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Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by FransJVermeiren »

The Testament of Benjamin 9 verses 3-5 closely link Jesus’ crucifixion and the tearing of the veil of the Temple. (The square brackets around the translations below indicate that these verses are considered a Christian interpolation in the Jewish text.)

I give two translations:
1. Charles, R.H., in The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, vol II.
[And He shall enter into the [first] temple, and there shall the Lord be treated with outrage, and He shall be lifted up upon a tree. And the veil of the temple shall be rent, and the Spirit of God shall pass on to the Gentiles as fire poured forth. And He shall ascend from Hades and shall pass from earth into heaven. And I know how lowly He shall be upon earth, and how glorious in heaven.]

2. Kee, H.C., in Charlesworth, James C. (ed.), The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, volume I.
[He shall enter the first temple, and there the Lord will be abused and will be raised up on wood. And the temple curtain shall be torn, and the spirit of God will move on to all nations as a fire is poured out. And he shall ascend from Hades and shall pass on from earth to heaven. I understand how humble he will be on the earth, and how splendid in heaven.]*

* = footnote in Charlesworth: “Perhaps the most explicit of all Christian interpolations. The tearing of the Temple veil is mentioned in TLevi 10:3 and may be a “prediction” after the event of Jerusalem’s fall in A.D. 70, or it could be an authentic predictive note that was exploited by Christians and expanded into the present extended interpolation.”

Testament of Levi 10:3-4 goes as follows: And you shall act lawlessly in Israel, with the result that Jerusalem cannot bear the presence of your wickedness, but the curtain of the Temple will be torn, so that it will no longer conceal your shameful behavior. You shall be scattered as captives among the nations, where you will be a disgrace and a curse.

TLevi 10:3-4 is interesting as it connects the tearing of the veil with the diaspora of 70 CE. The Lives of the Prophets 12 – Habakkuk verse 11-13a more explicitly connects the tearing of the veil with the destruction of the Temple: Concerning the end of the temple, he foretold that it would be brought to pass by a western nation. Then, he said, the veil of the inner sanctuary will be torn to pieces, and the capitals of the two pillars will be taken away, and no one will know where they are. (Translated by Charles Cutler Torrey)

As Matthew 27:51 also chronologically connects the tearing of the veil of the Temple with Jesus’ crucifixion, he says in a veiled way that Jesus was crucified during the culminating war events of the summer of 70 CE. This veil-cross connection is a nice supplement to my time shift theory that the core events described in the canonical Gospels took place during the war of the Jews against the Romans in 66-70 CE.
www.waroriginsofchristianity.com

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Secret Alias
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by Secret Alias »

Wikipedia:
The Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs contain a substantial amount of prophecy concerning the coming of the Messiah. From a Christian perspective, a number of statements can be associated with events in the life of Jesus. Many consider this significant since several of the books are thought to predate Jesus. This opinion, first propagated by Bacon in his Opus Majus, is hardly defended in modern scholarship, where all passages that clearly refer to Jesus are either considered Christian interpolations (by those who consider the author to be Jewish) or Christian writings (by those who consider the author to be Christian).[citation needed]

For example, compare the following passages from the Testament of Levi:

The heavens shall be opened, and from the temple of glory shall come upon him sanctification, with the Father's voice as from Abraham to Isaac. And the glory of the Most High shall be uttered over him, and the spirit of understanding and sanctification shall rest upon him in the water. (Levi 5:21-22)

with this passage from the Gospel of Matthew

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:16-17)

Use of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs in the New Testament[edit]
RH Charles called attention to the frequent use of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs by Paul and other writers of the New Testament. In particular:

I Thess. ii. 16 is a quotation of Test. Patr., Levi, 6:10;
Rom. 12:19 is taken from Gad, 6:10;
Rom. 12:21 is taken from Benjamin, 6:3;
II Cor. 12:10 is a quote from Gad, 5:7;
Ephes. 5:6 appeared first in Naphtali, 3:1.[22]
Later scholarship has highly debated this issue.
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andrewcriddle
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by andrewcriddle »

There is a good discussion of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs at https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/r ... toftwelve/

Andrew Criddle
perseusomega9
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by perseusomega9 »

Whether it's a jewish work with christian interpolation, or a christian work using jewish sources, can it be firmly be dated either pre or post gospels?
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
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spin
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by spin »

FransJVermeiren wrote:As Matthew 27:51 also chronologically connects the tearing of the veil of the Temple with Jesus’ crucifixion, he says in a veiled way that Jesus was crucified during the culminating war events of the summer of 70 CE. This veil-cross connection is a nice supplement to my time shift theory that the core events described in the canonical Gospels took place during the war of the Jews against the Romans in 66-70 CE.
Mt 27:51 is just a rewrite of Mk 15:38. There are signs of the destruction of the temple (and the dispossession of the Jews) in Mk, such as the parable of the wicked tenants (Mk 12). But we are dealing with text and not history when analysing the christian literature. It is wise not to reify the contents. We've long had to deal with the anachronism of the birth of Jesus being both before the death of Herod the Great and at the end of the reign of Archelaus. Lk seems to think Lysanius was alive in the 15th year of Tiberius and not dead 70 years earlier. The story of the Gadarene swine in Mk 5 appears to be based on events in A.J. 15.358 which took place 60 years before that 15th year. This is without considering the reliance of various gospel narrative elements on the life of Elisha. The best one can do with the tearing of the temple veil, which symbolizes the overthrow of the Jerusalem priesthood and temple-centered worship of the Jewish god (only the high priest could go beyond the veil), is use it as the earliest possible date for the closure of the gospel literature. However, narrative elements are pillaged from diverse times, so trying to invest a reality in the Jesus story is going beyond what can be achieved with the literary resources available.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by Ben C. Smith »

spin wrote:
FransJVermeiren wrote:As Matthew 27:51 also chronologically connects the tearing of the veil of the Temple with Jesus’ crucifixion, he says in a veiled way that Jesus was crucified during the culminating war events of the summer of 70 CE. This veil-cross connection is a nice supplement to my time shift theory that the core events described in the canonical Gospels took place during the war of the Jews against the Romans in 66-70 CE.
Mt 27:51 is just a rewrite of Mk 15:38. There are signs of the destruction of the temple (and the dispossession of the Jews) in Mk, such as the parable of the wicked tenants (Mk 12). But we are dealing with text and not history when analysing the christian literature. It is wise not to reify the contents. We've long had to deal with the anachronism of the birth of Jesus being both before the death of Herod the Great and at the end of the reign of Archelaus. Lk seems to think Lysanius was alive in the 15th year of Tiberius and not dead 70 years earlier. The story of the Gadarene swine in Mk 5 appears to be based on events in A.J. 15.358 which took place 60 years before that 15th year. This is without considering the reliance of various gospel narrative elements on the life of Elisha. The best one can do with the tearing of the temple veil, which symbolizes the overthrow of the Jerusalem priesthood and temple-centered worship of the Jewish god (only the high priest could go beyond the veil), is use it as the earliest possible date for the closure of the gospel literature. However, narrative elements are pillaged from diverse times, so trying to invest a reality in the Jesus story is going beyond what can be achieved with the literary resources available.
Agreed, for the most part, and this is why one-size-fits-all solutions are generally so unsatisfying. They very accurately notice that something in the gospel record seems to hail, say, from an incident under Archelaus (for example), but then they try to fit the rest of the gospel record into that same time frame, shoehorning details that do not really belong there.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by MrMacSon »

The Greek term for this “veil” occurs six times in the NT, three in the Synoptic rending texts, and three in the respective Hebrews citations.

The 3rd Synoptic reference is Luke 23:45.

The veil traditions in the book of Hebrews are Heb 6:19 where the believer’s hope lies secure “behind the veil”, which is in the sanctuary (Heb 9:3), and is identified with Christ’s flesh (Heb 10:20).

There is reference to a veil in Josephus Wars -
  • "before these doors there was a veil of equal largeness with the doors. It was a Babylonian curtain, embroidered with blue, and fine linen, and scarlet, and purple, and of a contexture that was truly wonderful. Nor was this mixture of colors without its mystical interpretation, but was a kind of image of the universe; for by the scarlet there seemed to be enigmatically signified fire, by the fine flax the earth, by the blue the air, and by the purple the sea; two of them having their colors the foundation of this resemblance; but the fine flax and the purple have their own origin for that foundation, the earth producing the one, and the sea the other. This curtain had also embroidered upon it all that was mystical in the heavens, excepting that of the [twelve] signs, representing living creatures." (Wars 5.5.4)
Josephus also speaks of doors “covered with variegated veils” - Ant. 15.11.3 §394; cf. Ant. 12.5.4 §250 though it is not entirely clear he is speaking of the holy of holies there. Also see Ant 3.6.4 126, Ant 3.7.7 183 and Ant 8.3.3, and the story of Crassus and the wily priest Eleazar at Ant. 14.7.1
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MrMacSon
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by MrMacSon »

Exodus 26 -
"You shall make a veil of blue and purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen; it shall be made with cherubim, the work of a skillful workman. You shall hang it on four pillars of acacia overlaid with gold, their hooks also being of gold, on four sockets of silver. You shall hang up the veil under the clasps, and shall bring in the ark of the testimony there within the veil; and the veil shall serve for you as a partition between the holy place and the holy of holies" (Exodus 26:31-33, NASB 1995).
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MrMacSon
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by MrMacSon »

Daniel M. Gurtner (2006) The Veil of the Temple in History and Legend Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society 49/1; pp. 97–114

http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/ ... urtner.pdf
Charles Wilson
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Re: Cross and destruction of the Temple in one breath

Post by Charles Wilson »

Ben C. Smith wrote:Agreed, for the most part, and this is why one-size-fits-all solutions are generally so unsatisfying. They very accurately notice that something in the gospel record seems to hail, say, from an incident under Archelaus (for example), but then they try to fit the rest of the gospel record into that same time frame, shoehorning details that do not really belong there.
Right again, Ben. Sure am glad that I don't fall into that trap... :lol:

CW
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