Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Secret Alias »

And straightaway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand
Another possible echo of apostleship in Secret Mark. "To stretch forth" a hand = shelach in Hebrew.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Secret Alias »

There is an important section of the Stromata Book 4 that we should consider also. Clement, of course, is the author of the letter to Theodore which mentions the secret gospel. In the Stromata Book 4 there is an important discussion of nakedness which makes extended references to 2 Corinthians 5:3. But the ultimate context is the (secret?) gospel and its relationship interesting to Ezekiel chapter 44. Why Ezekiel 44? It is strangely about 're-establishing' the priesthood in Jerusalem at the time of Ezekiel. Interesting that Clement in To Theodore implies the 'mystery of the kingdom of God' in the passage in the Secret Gospel is also tied to the establishment of priests in the Church (of St Mark) in Alexandria.

Let's begin with the passage in Ezekiel. It specifically mentions a seven day purification period after 'baptism':
Therefore thus saith the Lord God; No alien, uncircumcised in heart or uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of all the children of strangers that are in the midst of the house of Israel. But as for the Levites who departed far from me when Israel went astray from me after their imaginations, they shall even bear their iniquity. Yet they shall minister in my sanctuary, [being] porters at the gates of the house, and serving the house: they shall slay the victims and the whole-burnt-offerings for the people, and they shall stand before the people to minister to them. Because they ministered to them before their idols, and it became to the house of Israel a punishment of iniquity; therefore have I lifted up my hand against them, saith the Lord God. And they shall not draw nigh to me to minister to me in the priests' office, nor to approach the holy things of the children of Israel, nor [to approach] my holy of holies: but they shall bear their reproach for the error wherein they erred. They shall bring them to keep the charges of the house, for all the service of it, and for all that they shall do. The priests the Levites, the sons of Sadduc who kept the charges of my sanctuary when the house of Israel when astray from me, these shall draw night to me to minister to me, and shall stand before my face, to offer sacrifice to me, the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God These shall enter into my sanctuary, and these shall approach my table, to minister to me, and they shall keep my charges. And it shall come to pass when they enter the gates of the inner court, [that] they shall put on linen robes; and they shall not put on woollen garments when they minister at the gate of the inner court. And they shall have linen mitres upon their heads, and shall have linen drawers upon their loins; and they shall not tightly gird themselves. And when they go out into the outer court to the people, they shall put off their robes, in which they minister; and they shall lay them up in the chambers of the sanctuary, and shall put on other robes, and they shall not sanctify the people with their robes. And they shall not shave their heads, nor shall they pluck off their hair; they shall carefully cover their heads. And no priest shall drink any wine, when they go into the inner court. Neither shall they take to themselves to wife a widow, or one that is put away, but a virgin of the seed of Israel: but if there should happen to be a priest's widow, they shall take [her]. And they shall teach my people [to distinguish] between holy and profane, and they shall make known to them [the difference] between unclean and clean. And these shall attend at a judgment of blood to decide it: they shall rightly observe my ordinances, and judge my judgments, and keep my statutes and my commandments in all my feasts; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. And they shall not go in to the dead body of a man to defile themselves: only [a priest] may defile himself for a father, or for a mother, or for a son, or for a daughter, or for a brother, or for his sister, who has not been married. And after he has been cleansed, let him number to himself seven days. And on whatsoever day they shall enter into the inner court to minister in the holy place, they shall bring a purification, saith the Lord God. And it shall be to them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and no possession shall be given them among the children of Israel; for I am their possession.
Now let's look at the first passage in the Stromata Book Four which references the nakedness of 2 Corinthians 5:3:
Wherefore thus says the Lord, Every alien son is uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh (that is, unclean in body and soul): there shall not enter one of the strangers into the midst of the house of Israel, but the Levites. Ezekiel 44:9-10 He calls those that would not believe, but would disbelieve, strangers. Only those who live purely being true priests of God. Wherefore, of all the circumcised tribes, those anointed to be high priests, and kings, and prophets, were reckoned more holy. Whence He commands them not to touch dead bodies, or approach the dead; not that the body was polluted, but that sin and disobedience were incarnate, and embodied, and dead, and therefore abominable. It was only, then, when a father and mother, a son and daughter died, that the priest was allowed to enter, because these were related only by flesh and seed, to whom the priest was indebted for the immediate cause of his entrance into life. And they purify themselves seven days, the period in which Creation was consummated. For on the seventh day the rest is celebrated; and on the eighth he brings a purification, as is written in Ezekiel, according to which purification the promise is to be received. Ezekiel 44:27 And the perfect purification (τέλειος καθαρισμὸς), I take it, is that propitious faith in the Gospel (τὸ εὐαγγέλιον πίστις) which is by the law and the prophets, and the purity which shows itself in universal obedience, with the abandonment of the things of the world; in order to that grateful surrender of the tabernacle (εὐχάριστον τοῦ σκήνους ἀπόδοσιν), which results from the enjoyment of the soul. Whether, then, the time be that which through the seven periods enumerated returns to the chiefest rest, or the seven heavens, which some reckon one above the other; or whether also the fixed sphere which borders on the intellectual world be called the eighth, the expression denotes that the Gnostic ought to rise out of the sphere of creation and of sin. After these seven days, sacrifices are offered for sins. For there is still fear of change, and it touches the seventh circle. The righteous Job says: Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return there; Job 1:21 not naked of possessions, for that were a trivial and common thing; but, as a just man, he departs naked of evil and sin, and of the unsightly shape which follows those who have led bad lives. For this was what was said, Unless you be converted, and become as children, Matthew 18:3 pure in flesh, holy in soul by abstinence from evil deeds; showing that He would have us to be such as also He generated us from our mother— the water. For the intent of one generation succeeding another is to immortalize by progress.
So Clement understands that Jesus's mission on earth was to establish mysteries of purification which resembled those which accompanied the restoration of the priesthood at the time of Ezekiel. In what follows he declares that we must ultimately go from the seventh to the eighth which he likens to a transfer from 'physical character' (φυσικωτέρων) to :
The Saviour Himself, then, plainly initiates us into the mysteries, according to the words of the tragedy: —

Seeing those who see, he also gives the orgies.

And if you ask,

These orgies, what is their nature?

You will hear again:—

It is forbidden to mortals uninitiated in the Bacchic rites to know.

And if any one will inquire curiously what they are, let him hear:—

It is not lawful for you to hear, but they are worth knowing;
The rites of the God detest him who practices impiety.

Now God, who is without beginning, is the perfect beginning of the universe, and the producer of the beginning. As, then, He is being, He is the first principle of the department of action, as He is good, of morals; as He is mind, on the other hand, He is the first principle of reasoning and of judgment. Whence also He alone is Teacher, who is the only Son of the Most High Father, the Instructor of men.
What are these mysteries that Jesus initiates the initiate into according to Clement? He answers - "I shall pray the Spirit of Christ to wing me to my Jerusalem." Clearly then Jesus initiates the initiate into a heavenly ascent but specifically a heavenly ascent involving ritual nudity.

Now why would Clement reference Ezekiel at the very beginning if this was not relevant to the discussion? What we have to begin to see is that baptism is at the beginning of the seven day period of purification. Look back and see for yourself. In Ezekiel 44:26 - 27 it says explicitly:
And after he has been cleansed, let him number to himself seven days. And on whatsoever day they shall enter into the inner court to minister in the holy place, they shall bring a purification, saith the Lord God.
Clearly Clement in the Letter to Theodore connects the 'after six days' in Secret Mark with entering the holy of holies in the temple too albeit now the Church of St Mark in Alexandria. Now let's see how he ties in 2 Corinthians 5:3 in what follows in Stromata Book 4
Now the soul of the wise man and Gnostic, as sojourning in the body, conducts itself towards it gravely and respectfully, not with inordinate affections, as about to leave the tabernacle if the time of departure summon. I am a stranger in the earth, and a sojourner with you, it is said. And hence Basilides says, that he apprehends that the election are strangers to the world, being supramundane by nature. But this is not the case. For all things are of one God. And no one is a stranger to the world by nature, their essence being one, and God one. But the elect man dwells as a sojourner, knowing all things to be possessed and disposed of; and he makes use of the things which the Pythagoreans make out to be the threefold good things. The body, too, as one sent on a distant pilgrimage, uses inns and dwellings by the way, having care of the things of the world, of the places where he halts; but leaving his dwelling-place and property without excessive emotion; readily following him that leads him away from life; by no means and on no occasion turning back; giving thanks for his sojourn, and blessing [God] for his departure, embracing the mansion that is in heaven. For we know, that, if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we walk by faith, not by sight, as the apostle says; and we are willing rather to be absent from the body, and present with God. The rather is in comparison. And comparison obtains in the case of things that fall under resemblance; as the more valiant man is more valiant among the valiant, and most valiant among cowards. Whence he adds, Wherefore we strive, whether present or absent, to be accepted with Him, 2 Corinthians 5:9 that is, God, whose work and creation are all things, both the world and things supramundane. I admire Epicharmus, who clearly says:—

Endowed with pious mind, you will not, in dying,
Suffer anything evil. The spirit will dwell in heaven above;

and the minstrel who sings:—

The souls of the wicked flit about below the skies on earth,
In murderous pains beneath inevitable yokes of evils;
But those of the pious dwell in the heavens,
Hymning in songs the Great, the Blessed One.

The soul is not then sent down from heaven to what is worse. For God works all things up to what is better. But the soul which has chosen the best life— the life that is from God and righteousness— exchanges earth for heaven. With reason therefore, Job, who had attained to knowledge, said, Now I know that you can do all things; and nothing is impossible to You. For who tells me of what I know not, great and wonderful things with which I was unacquainted? And I felt myself vile, considering myself to be earth and ashes. For he who, being in a state of ignorance, is sinful, is earth and ashes; while he who is in a state of knowledge, being assimilated as far as possible to God, is already spiritual, and so elect.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Secret Alias »

So if we look at the discussion in Stromata 4 Clement weaves together (hence the name 'stromata') four different texts to explain his mysterious understanding of 'purification.'

1. Ezekiel chapter 44 which deals with the restoration of the priesthood
2. Job 1:21 in which Job stresses that we enter and leave the world naked
3. 2 Corinthians 5:3 which speaks about receiving '(the heavenly Jerusalem) building' naked
4. Job 42 which Clement says epitomizes "the soul which has chosen the best life— the life that is from God and righteousness— exchanges earth for heaven."

Interestingly the citation of Job leaves out the most critical line in Job without which the passage makes little sense.
I have heard the report of thee by the ear before; but now mine eye has seen thee. Wherefore I have counted myself vile, and have fainted: and I esteem myself dust and ashes.
Remember Basilides claims that the elect are by nature of the heavenly stuff. But Clement rejects this notion that the elect start out life made of a different substance from the rest of humanity. What has caused the transformation of the initiate is his having 'seen God.' This is the same cause that transformed Moses and so he concludes " For he who, being in a state of ignorance, is sinful, is earth and ashes; while he who is in a state of knowledge, being assimilated as far as possible to God, is already spiritual, and so elect." Ignorance and knowledge here being defined as whether or not one is 'brought into acquaintance' or more plainly seeing God.

Now this is what makes the Stromata such a brilliant work. Clement has weaved together a tapestry of four different texts (plus Greek sources) in order to explain what is clearly a 'secret' event - i.e. someone beholding Jesus for what he is - viz the heavenly being who transformed Moses on Sinai, transformed the priests in the holy of holies etc. What can this source be other than the 'secret' gospel? Why weave a tapestry which points back to the Lord 'instructing' or initiating someone into the mystery of the kingdom of God if it was not written somewhere. The idea that Clement is making this all up out of his own imagination is simply untenable.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Secret Alias »

Clement's text of 2 Corinthians 5:
Clement: οἴδαμεν γὰρ ὅτι, ἐὰν ἡ ἐπίγειος ἡμῶν οἰκία τοῦ σκήνους καταλυθῇ, οἰκοδομὴν ἐκ θεοῦ ἔχομεν, οἰκίαν ἀχειροποίητον αἰώνιον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς

Received: οἴδαμεν γὰρ ὅτι ἐὰν ἡ ἐπίγειος ἡμῶν οἰκία τοῦ σκήνους καταλυθῇ, οἰκοδομὴν ἐκ θεοῦ ἔχομεν οἰκίαν ἀχειροποίητον αἰώνιον ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς

Clement: καὶ γὰρ ἐν τούτῳ στενάζομεν, τὸ οἰκητήριον ἡμῶν τὸ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἐπενδύσασθαι ἐπιποθοῦντες, εἴ γε καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι οὐ γυμνοὶ εὑρεθησόμεθα

Received: καὶ γὰρ ἐν τούτῳ στενάζομεν, τὸ οἰκητήριον ἡμῶν τὸ ἐξ οὐρανοῦ ἐπενδύσασθαι ἐπιποθοῦντες, εἴ γε καὶ ἐνδυσάμενοι οὐ γυμνοὶ εὑρεθησόμεθα

Clement: nothing
Received text: [καὶ γὰρ οἱ ὄντες ἐν τῷ σκήνει στενάζομεν βαρούμενοι ἐφ’ ᾧ οὐ θέλομεν ἐκδύσασθαι ἀλλ’ ἐπενδύσασθαι, ἵνα καταποθῇ τὸ θνητὸν ὑπὸ τῆς ζωῆς. Ὁ δὲ κατεργασάμενος ἡμᾶς εἰς αὐτὸ τοῦτο θεός, ὁ καὶ δοὺς ἡμῖν τὸν ἀρραβῶνα τοῦ πνεύματος. Θαρροῦντες οὖν πάντοτε καὶ εἰδότες ὅτι ἐνδημοῦντες ἐν τῷ σώματι ἐκδημοῦμεν ἀπὸ τοῦ Κυρίου - For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.]
Clement: διὰ πίστεως γὰρ περιπατοῦμεν, οὐ διὰ εἴδους,

Received: διὰ πίστεως γὰρ περιπατοῦμεν, οὐ διὰ εἴδους

Clement: εὐδοκοῦμεν δὲ μᾶλλον ἐκδημῆσαι ἐκ τοῦ σώματος καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι πρὸς τὸν θεόν

Received: [θαρροῦμεν δὲ καὶ] εὐδοκοῦμεν μᾶλλον ἐκδημῆσαι ἐκ τοῦ σώματος καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι πρὸς τὸν Κύριον.

Clement ... διὸ φιλοτιμούμεθα, εἴτε ἐκδημοῦντες εἴτε ἐνδημοῦντες, εὐάρεστοι εἶναι αὐτῷ

Received ... διὸ καὶ φιλοτιμούμεθα, εἴτε ἐνδημοῦντες εἴτε ἐκδημοῦντες, εὐάρεστοι αὐτῷ εἶναι.
Notice not only the consistent 'Marcionite-like' characteristic of Clement's text of Paul. The red text was added to our received text. Why? Because the editor didn't want Paul to be saying that the initiated were already in a 'perfect state.' Now the POV is that they are still waiting rather than already have received perfection.

And of course THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF CLEMENT'S DISCUSSION - i.e. that there are people (the elect) who underwent the transformation in the Alexandrian mysteries. The only difference between Clement and Basilides is on the issue of whether certain types of people were already perfect at birth (which is a stupid distinction; could Basilides really have believed that or is Clement just trying to show himself 'against' Basilides by creating a fake position for the heretic).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Secret Alias »

So we just saw Clement's text of 2 Corinthians (or what appears to be Clement's text of 2 Corinthians). Now we turn to Tertullian's reference to his text of 2 Corinthians in relation to Marcionism:
As to the house of this our earthly dwelling-place, when he says that "we have an eternal home in heaven, not made with hands," he by no means would imply that, because it was built by the Creator's hand, it must perish in a perpetual dissolution after death. He treats of this subject in order to offer consolation against the fear of death and the dread of this very dissolution, as is even more manifest from what follows, when he adds, that "in this tabernacle of our earthly body we do groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with the vesture which is from heaven, if so be, that having been unclothed, we shall not be found naked; "in other words, shall regain that of which we have been divested, even our body." And again he says: "We that are in this tabernacle do groan, not as if we were oppressed with an unwillingness to be unclothed, but to be clothed upon." He here says expressly, what he touched but lightly in his first epistle, where he wrote: "The dead shall be raised Incorruptible (meaning those who had undergone mortality), "and we shall be changed" (whom God shall find to be yet in the flesh). Both those shall be raised incorruptible, because they shall regain their body----and that a renewed one, from which shall come their incorruptibility; and these also shall, in the crisis of the last moment, and from their instantaneous death, whilst encountering the oppressions of anti-christ, undergo a change, obtaining therein not so much a divestiture of body as "a clothing upon" with the vesture which is from heaven. So that whilst these shall put on over their body this, heavenly raiment, the dead also shall for their part recover their body, over which they too have a supervesture to put on, even the incorruption of heaven; because of these it was that he said: "This corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." The one put on this apparel, when they recover their bodies; the others put it on as a supervesture, when they indeed hardly lose them (in the suddenness of their change). It was accordingly not without good reason that he described them as "not wishing indeed to be unclothed," but "to be clothed upon; " in other words, as wishing not to undergo death, but to be surprised into life, "that this mortal might be swallowed up of life," by being rescued from death in the supervesture of its changed state. This is why he shows us how much better it is for us not to be sorry, if we should be surprised by death, and tells us that we even hold of God "the earnest of His Spirit" (pledged as it were thereby to have "the clothing upon," which is the object of our hope), and that "so long as we are in the flesh, we are absent from the Lord; " moreover, that we ought on this account to prefer "rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord," and so to be ready to meet even death with joy. In this view it is that he informs us how "we must all appear before the judgement-seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according as he hath done either good or bad." Since, however, there is then to be a retribution according to men's merits, how will any be able to reckon with God? But by mentioning both the judgment-seat and the distinction between works good and bad, he sets before us a Judge who is to award both sentences, and has thereby affirmed that all will have to be present at the tribunal in their bodies. For it will be impossible to pass sentence except on the body, for what has been done in the body. God would be unjust, if any one were not punished or else rewarded in that very condition, wherein the merit was itself achieved. If therefore any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old; things are passed away; behold, all things are become new; " and so is accomplished the prophecy of Isaiah. [Adv Marc 5:10]
I never understood why people simply go down the list here and say 'every line is in Marcion's Apostlicon.' If the original material comes via Irenaeus (which it must) it can't be forgotten that Irenaeus argues from his text of the gospel, from his text of Paul - indeed his canon of Paul - against the Marcionites and the heretics. When are we going to learn that these are not 'scholars' but partisan propagandists for the most part.

As I have noted several dozen times at this forum, Adv Marc only attests to the canon and the recension of the orthodox redactors with an occasional explicit reference to Marcion's canon.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Clive
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by Clive »

Perfect (also known as a Parfait in French or Perfectus in Latin) was the name given by Bernard of Clairvaux to a monk of the medieval Christian religious movement of southern France and northern Italy commonly referred to as the Cathars. The term reflects that such a person was seen by the Catholic Church as the "perfect heretic".[1] As "bonhommes" (their term) Perfecti were expected to follow a lifestyle of extreme austerity and renunciation of the world which included abstaining from eating meat and avoiding all sexual contact. By that virtue they were recognized as trans-material (i.e. spiritualized) angels by their followers, the Credentes (Croyant in French, Believers in English). Perfecti were drawn from all walks of life and counted aristocrats, merchants and peasants among their number. Women could also become Perfects; Female Perfects were known as Parfaites or Perfectae.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar_Perfect
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Re: Naked with Jesus = Apostleship

Post by rakovsky »

Ancient Greek
Etymology

From ἀποστέλλω ("I send off") from ἀπό- ("from") and στέλλω ("I set").
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%8 ... ient_Greek
That looks pretty clear.

Can someone summarize in one paragraph some of their best proofs that "Naked with Jesus = Apostleship"?

My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com
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