Yes, gnostic or pagan traditions.outhouse wrote:
in John - We see outright contradictions, as this theological piece came from communities who had a long history of tradition in their community, that were vastly different from the few who shared gospel traditions.
The traditions in John existed before the gospels were even written.
Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
The Discourses were written (or notes taken) during Jesus's lifetime. The Passion Narrative (best seen in the source underlying John) was written down immediately as a diary entry by John Mark. The Signs Source was written in Greek shortly after 44 A. D. These were edited and added to by the Apostle John while most apostles were still alive. Before 70 Apollo finished redacting John.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Yes, but not even close to being limited to such.MrMacSon wrote:Yes, gnostic or pagan traditions.outhouse wrote:
in John - We see outright contradictions, as this theological piece came from communities who had a long history of tradition in their community, that were vastly different from the few who shared gospel traditions.
The traditions in John existed before the gospels were even written.
Traditions regarding jesus regardless of historicity, contradict each other.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Adam no one listens to your apologetic rhetoric.Adam wrote:The Discourses were written (or notes taken) during Jesus's lifetime. The Passion Narrative (best seen in the source underlying John) was written down immediately as a diary entry by John Mark. The Signs Source was written in Greek shortly after 44 A. D. These were edited and added to by the Apostle John while most apostles were still alive. Before 70 Apollo finished redacting John.
The passion narrative may have existed in text, but by falsely attributing an author, you lose all credibility.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Yes, b/c those traditions were developed over a long period of time in a soup of many different and competing traditionsouthouse wrote: Traditions regarding jesus, regardless of historicity, contradict each other.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
What information do you use to substantiate this assertion?Adam wrote:The Passion Narrative (best seen in the source underlying John) was written down immediately as a diary entry by John Mark.
What information do you use to substantiate this assertion?Adam wrote: The Signs Source was written in Greek shortly after 44 A. D. These were edited and added to by the Apostle John while most apostles were still alive. Before 70 Apollo finished redacting John.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
MrMacSon wrote:Yes, b/c those traditions were developed over a long period of time in a soup of many different and competing traditionsouthouse wrote: Traditions regarding jesus, regardless of historicity, contradict each other.
Does not fit all of them. Some could be early traditions.
Example would be, How many trips did he make to the temple? Just because we cannot answer it, does not mean it was a later mythological statement
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
For my Thesis of seven written eyewitness accounts about Jesus, seeMrMacSon wrote:What information do you use to substantiate this assertion?Adam wrote:The Passion Narrative (best seen in the source underlying John) was written down immediately as a diary entry by John Mark.
What information do you use to substantiate this assertion?Adam wrote: The Signs Source was written in Greek shortly after 44 A. D. These were edited and added to by the Apostle John while most apostles were still alive. Before 70 Apollo finished redacting John.
http://www.earlywritings.com/forum/view ... p=756#p756
And go down to Oct. 10, 2013 to where Peter Kirby edits my work under the caveat
THESE ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT MY IDEAS.
(Note that Apelles redacting John is a later idea (I got from you or SA or someone else here in BCH) not included. He was not an eyewitness),
Note also that I was already reconsidering whether the verbatim-almost-the-same John-the-Baptist-stuff was from one of the seven eyewitnesses or not. In any case I regard it as later than my first seven written accounts.
Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
Adam wrote: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14&p=756#p756
.
That is not a credible source.
We are not reading all your garbage, so get to the point and provide a credible source in a paragraph or two.
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Re: Anti-Judaism and the Priority of John.
From the fact that "Jesus Stories" were written from Sources, it does not follow that the Sources were about "Jesus".outhouse wrote:Example would be, How many trips did he make to the temple? Just because we cannot answer it, does not mean it was a later mythological statement
OK. *IF* we assume that "Jesus" was a Priest (He taught daily in the Temple and they did not arrest him), then we know that this Priest rotated into the Temple every 168 days for one week and also for the Commanded Holy Days. That is what is so *Stark* about "John Baptising" and the like. You may assert that John and Jesus were NOT Priests but then you would have to explain how Jesus got into the Temple to "Cleanse it", ETC. NOTE: You cannot assert that the Corrupt High Priests (Appointed High Priests...) simply allowed these people to run the Temple Service and clear the area and that the Mishmarot Priesthood would allow this. Didn't happen that way.
We do know when "Jesus" made trips to the Temple. If "Jesus" was not a Priest, would Jairus fall down at his feet and ask him to lay hands on his daughter? NO!
Do the math. We do know how many days Jesus was in Temple.
Here's where you come in, outhouse. What would the Hellenized version of such a Story tell us? The Shift would be from a "Retrograde Priestly Cult" to a Platonic Division of "Heavenly" and "Earthly". Which is what we got.
Best,
CW