Ehrman's Adoptionist Theory and Christ Mythicism

[Ulan]

I suspect some of the Pauline pericopes are Jesus ones, or have had Jesus inserted in them, and some are other-Christ ones.

In my heady younger daze, I thought it could be the case that - when we encounter "Jesus" (without "Christ"), "Christ" (without "Jesus"), "Jesus Christ" (in that order), and "Christ Jesus" (in that order), with and without the definite article ("the") or associated with the word "Lord" - we are encountering different perceptions of the "savior" by Paul or the sources he (or an editor) used.

I've often thought the same. I think it would be interesting to look at the so-called authentic-Paulines, and the so-called non-authentic Paulines for patterns of Christ v Jesus, Jesus Christ, & Christ Jesus, and see if there are differences among them.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this was done. One of the problems of formalities like this is the harmonizing tendency of scribes, so it's probably necessary to look through manuscript variations.

[DCHindley]

I found the following on my computer that compares "Jesus Christ" with "Christ Jesus", probably based on the RSV, which follows Nestle-Aland GNT as opposed to the Majority or Byzantine textual reconstructions:

Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	Book	JC	CJ	Relative	Percentage
Matt. 1:1, 18;	None	MAT	2	0
Mk. 1:1;	None	MAR	1	0
Luke (None)	None	LUK	0	0
Jn. 1:17; 17:3;	None	JOH	2	0
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	Gospels	5	0	100.0%	0.0%
Acts 2:38; 3:6; 4:10; 8:12; 9:34; 10:36, 48; 11:17; 15:26; 16:18; 20:21; 28:31;	Acts 24:24;	ACT	12	1	92.3%	7.7%
Rom. 1:1, 4, 6, 7 8; 3:22; 5:1, 11, 15, 17, 21; 7:25; 13:14; 15:6, 30; 16:20, 25, 27;	Rom. 2:16; 3:24; 6:3, 11, 23; 8:1, 2, 11, 34, 39; 15:5, 16, 17; 16:3;	ROM	18	14
1 Co. 1:2, 3, 7, 8. 9; 2:2; 3:11; 6:11; 8:6; 15:57;	1 Co. 1:1, 2, 4, 30; 4:15; 15:31; 16:24;	1CO	10	7
2 Co. 1:2, 3, 19; 4:5; 8:9; 13:5, 14;	2 Co. 1:1;	2CO	7	1
Gal. 1:1, 3, 12; 2:16; 3:1, 22; 6:14, 18;	Gal. 2:4, 16; 3:14, 26, 28; 4:14; 5:6, 24;	GAL	8	8
1 Thess. 1:1, 3; 5:9, 23, 28;	1 Thess. 2:14; 5:18;	1TH	5	2
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	"Genuine"	30	18	62.5%	37.5%
Eph. 1:2, 3, 5, 17; 5:20; 6:23, 24;	Eph. 1:1a, 1b; 2:6, 7, 10, 13, 20; 3:1, 6, 11, 21;	EPH	7	11
Phil. 1:2, 6, 11, 19; 2:11, 21; 3:20; 4:23;	Phil. 1:1, 8, 26; 2:5; 3:3, 8, 12, 14; 4:7, 19, 21;	PHI	8	11
Col. 1:3;	Col. 1:1, 4; 2:6; 4:12;	COL	1	4
2 Thess. 1:1, 2, 12; 2:1, 14, 16; 3:6, 12, 18;	None	2TH	9	0
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	"Disputed"	25	26	49.0%	51.0%
1 Tim. 1:16; 6:3, 14;	1 Tim. 1:1a, 1b, 2, 12, 14, 15; 2:5; 3:13; 4:6; 5:21; 6:13;	1TI	3	11
2 Tim. 2:8;	2 Tim. 1:1a, 1b, 2, 9, 10, 13; 2:1, 3, 10; 3:12, 15; 4:1;	2TI	1	12
Tit. 1:1; 2:13; 3:6;	Tit. 1:4;	TIT	3	1
Phlm. 1:3, 25;	Phlm. 1:1, 9, 23	PHM	2	3
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	Pastorals	9	27	25.0%	75.0%
Heb. 10:10; 13:8, 21;	None	HEB	3	0	100.0%	0.0%
Jas. 1:1; 2:1;	None	JAM	2	0
1 Pet. 1:1 2, 3a, 3b, 7, 13; 2:5; 3:21; 4:11;	None	1PE	9	0
2 Pet. 1:1, 8, 11, 14, 16; 2:20; 3:18;	None	2PE	7	0
1 Jn. 1:3; 2:1; 3:23; 4:2; 5:6, 20;	None	1JN	6	0
2 Jn. 1:3, 7;	None	2JN	2	0
3 Jn (None)	None	3JN	0	0
Jude 1:1, 4, 17, 21, 25;	None	JUD	5	0
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	"General"	31	0	100.0%	0.0%
Rev. 1:1, 2, 5	None	REV	3	0	100.0%	0.0%
Jesus Christ:	Christ Jesus:	TOT	118	72	62.1%	37.9%

I subtotaled the relative proportions to illustrate the real differences by groups. The four Gospels; Acts (alone, as I am not convinced was written by same author as Luke); the five generally uncontested letters of Paul (ROM, 1CO, 2CO, GAL & 1TH); the four "disputed" letters to cities (EPH, PHI, COL & 2TH); the four "Pastorals" (1TI, 2TI, TIT, PHM); Hebrews (alone, again, as its likely not by any genuine Paul); the seven "General" letters (JAM, 1PE, 2PE, 1JN, 2JN, 3JN & JUD, which are usually transmitted along with ACT).

This does NOT include "Jesus" alone, or "Christ" alone, or "Lord" (whether alone or whether in combination with any of the previous).

From experience, I'd say "Christ" (alone) far outnumbers "Jesus" (alone). "Lord" gets a little complicated. If the term proceeds either J, C, JC or CJ, should it be treated differently that if it comes after, as in "our Lord"?

If that is the case, then the combinations would be:

J
LJ
JL
C
LC
CL
JC
LJC
JCL
CJ
LCJ
CJL

DCH

[MrMacSon]

I found the following on my computer that compares "Jesus Christ" with "Christ Jesus", probably based on the RSV, which follows Nestle-Aland GNT as opposed to the Majority or Byzantine textual reconstructions:

• ....

I subtotaled the relative proportions to illustrate the real differences by groups.

1. The four Gospels;
2. Acts (alone, as I am not convinced was written by same author as Luke);
3. the five generally uncontested letters of Paul (ROM, 1CO, 2CO, GAL & 1TH);
4. the four "disputed" letters to cities (EPH, PHI, COL & 2TH);
5. the four "Pastorals" (1TI, 2TI, TIT, PHM);
6. Hebrews (alone, again, as its likely not by any genuine Paul);
7. the seven "General" letters (JAM, 1PE, 2PE, 1JN, 2JN, 3JN & JUD, which are usually transmitted along with ACT).

That's quite interesting!!

The Gospels, 'the seven "General" letters', Revelation (aka the Apocalypse), and Hebrews are 100% *Jesus Christ*.

Acts (which you note "are usually transmitted along with the seven 'General' letters") is 92% *Jesus Christ* (12/13)


The 5 "genuine Paulines" are ~ 2/3 'Jesus Christ' and 1/3 'Christ Jesus'.

The "disputed Paulines" are 50/50; and the Pastorals are 25% 'JC' and 75% 'CJ'.


It would be interesting to know

• 1. if we can determine what the early versions of 'Christ' were
  
  • • a. the 'anointed' version - Χριστός (Christós); or
      
      b. the good/useful version - Xρηστός chréstos;
      
      (or any variations of them) ... and
  2. if the versions of 'Christ' in any way changed over time
  
  • (we know Codices Sinaiticus & Vaticanus had 'Chrestians' - what about their versions of Christ??)
    
    • Codex Sinaiticus seems to have the nomen sacrum XC for Matt 24:5
      It seems to have (to my untrained eye) IU XU for Jesus Christ in Matt 1:1

"Christ" alone being more predominant is note-worthy, too ---viz. -

This does NOT include "Jesus" alone, or "Christ" alone, or "Lord" (whether alone or whether in combination with any of the previous).

From experience, I'd say "Christ" (alone) far outnumbers "Jesus" (alone).

"Lord" gets a little complicated. If the term proceeds either J, C, JC or CJ, should it be treated differently that if it comes after, as in "our Lord"?

If that is the case, then the combinations would be:

• • J
    LJ
    JL
    C
    LC
    CL
    JC
    LJC
    JCL
    CJ
    LCJ
    CJL

It would be interesting to see if or how Lord is used interchangeably, as it often is in [some] OT books for angels

.