Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Robert Baird
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Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Robert Baird »

Mr. Atwill and all the other scholars in the video which follows are on a good path but there was a title called Iesa (Jesus) and the family he (Yeshua) belonged to. It was a powerful family for many millennia. When he gets back to the Great Pyramid he will be close to grasping how important Jesus (Iesa) really is. But for now it is good to set the record straight about the Gospels being Roman propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/user/caesarsmessiah

A very religious and some think a good Christian site tells us the Eucharist is central to all rituals and mysteries. Remember the priests sometimes know more about these rituals and their origins than the sheople do.

"THE feast of the Transfiguration of our Lord on Thabor is a beautiful feast. Let us say a few words about its relations to the Eucharistic transfiguration. All the mysteries have some relation to the Eucharist, for the Eucharist completes them all..."

http://www.catholictradition.org/Euc...presence45.htm

You can browse for how the Vampires describe transfiguration for more insight to what the faithful actually give their soulful energy to. I have already posted a link to an article I wrote titled They Want your Menstruum and The Star-Fire Ritual at the Dragon website. The sharing of blood transfers genetic knowledge from adept to succubae or initiate in the art of a Nos Feratu. That is what the Last Supper is all about, but none of those apostles really got a great deal of knowledge as portrayed by Rome in their propaganda you correctly call the Gospels.

If you actually study and learn you might be able to participate in stopping the wars and racism which come out of falsehoods in religions.

The power over non-religious people who wish this to end or the power over the brainwashed sheep must be diminished at a minimum - or we can be pretty certain some level of Armageddon will be forthcoming - they actually want this. Who are THEY? THEY are the ignorant!

The video at the beginning of this response demonstrates a little of the facts we can be certain of in reference to the Roman religion which is what any who believe in the NEW Testament follow - not just Catholics.

I have not read the following book which was not available when I wrote many books on the points he addresses. It seems to mirror my points as well as his other book The Invention of the Jewish People. (See threads on the Diaspora, Hyksos and Exodus for a sampling).

One reviewer says if people knew what is written in these books we might see an end to all the Holy lies and liars - but it will take more than all people learning history to begin to find any truth in all religions.
"“Anyone interested in understanding the contemporary Middle East should read this book.”—Tony Judt, In praise of The Invention of the Jewish People

“Perhaps books combining passion and erudition don’t change political situations, but if they did, this one would count as a landmark.”—Eric Hobsbawm, In praise of The Invention of the Jewish People

“A thought-provoking, readable, and important work.”—Publisher's Weekly

“... there is much to enjoy and learn in the evidence in the potentially incendiary material [Shlomo Sand] assembles here.”—Electronic Intifada

“[Sand] critically consider the ways in which the Zionist colonization of Palestine and the establishment of the State of Israel have been justified by claims of ancestral lands, historical rights, and millennia-old national yearnings, all of which he proceeds to critically undermine as either justifiable reasons for mastery over the land of Palestine/Israel or even representative of longstanding mass Jewish aspirations.”—Book News

“This groundbreaking new historical work from a highly controversial author undoes the myth of the Jewish people’s historical right to the ‘Land of Israel.’”—SirReadaLot.org

About the Author

Shlomo Sand studied history at the University of Tel Aviv and at the École des hautes études en sciences sociales, in Paris. He currently teaches contemporary history at the University of Tel Aviv. His books include The Invention of the Jewish People, On the Nation and the Jewish People, L’Illusion du politique: Georges Sorel et le débat intellectuel 1900, Georges Sorel en son temps, Le XXe siècle à l’écran and Les Mots et la terre: les intellectuels en Israël."

As stated in the following link there are an unending list of authors and facts that prove the New Testament Gospels are a fraud and the re-writing done on the Bible is a verdant cesspool of murders, codes and deceits. Paul/Saul ranks alongside King James for murderer of the era of Empire and it is their and Rome's Reich to which so many holocausts and crusades owe their genesis. Yes, name the genocide in every era - the Bible is found front and center, except maybe in the Pol Pot regime which is an outgrowth of the Bush drug war for their Russell family bosses who are responsible for the Opium Wars and Shrub (who speaks with or for God).

http://carrington-arts.com/cliff/FlavPreface.htm

But the truth of those named Jesus is far greater and more miraculous (scientifically) than any myth written in the annals of recorded history. The records of those named Jesus were destroyed by usurpers, robbers and worse for over five millennia James Joyce correctly asserts is most foul and dastardly.

http://bloggerjesuscristo.blogspot.c...8_archive.html

From the thread Jesus in India - here and from about five years ago. Also there are quotes from Philip Gardiner saying things Philip and I discussed before he wrote his book Gnosis which was promoted by the top Gnostic people we knew.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/book.html

Did Jesus ever live?

Sir John Wilkinson pointed out that 'the first cross found in Egypt belonging to the Christians is not the cross which we know from the Gospel, but the Crux Ansata, the Ankh-sign of life.'(1) The supposed emblem and proof of 'a crucified Christ is purely Egyptian, and has no relation, either direct, or typical, to crucifixion, which has been all along ignorantly assumed to give its significance to the cross. The Ankh-sign proves the Christians to have belonged to the Osirian religion originally, the Christ of which was Horus, the Christ who was continued by the Gnostics.'(2)

Ancient Rome had ridiculed the first Christians because 'of their ignorance of the past and the true nature of their religious symbols, which they had come by they knew not how, nor when.'(3) It took seven centuries from the supposed birth of Jesus till the Council of Trullo 'to transform the typical and mythological cross (once and for all) into an historical one.'(4) And it was not till the Nineteenth Century that the first scholars started doubting the notion of an historical Jesus. And not until 1834 that Rochette 'conclusively showed that the most ancient images of the Virgin and Christ were of Gnostic fabrication; and that the Gnostic Christ was not an historical personage.'(5)


I understand that churches still cling to an historical Christ, but I am shocked to see that even open minded people in the spiritual west, people publishing at World Mysteries for example, still accept a Christ of history. It was about time they understood that no such person ever lived and that the Gospel is but 'a vehicle for alchemy.'
(See http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/scholars.html for instance.)

Betty Martin at World Mysteries

I do not see any real alchemical part in the creation of the Gospels. Perhaps Roman authors who knew Thoth/Hermes intellectual thought worked with it as they did any other means of making stories fit with what people already knew. I do not see any real alchemical part in the creation of

Paine - “One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”

Ingersoll - “Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith! Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge!”

Voltaire - “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”

Whitman - “I like the scientific spirit—the holding off, the being sure but not too sure, the willingness to surrender ideas when the evidence is against them: this is ultimately fine—it always keeps the way beyond open—always gives life, thought, affection, the whole man, a chance to try over again after a mistake—after a wrong guess.”

Edison - "Moral teaching is the thing we need most in this world, and many of these men could be great moral teachers if they would but give their whole time to it, and to scientific search for the rock-bottom truth, instead of wasting it upon expounding theories of theology which are not in the first place firmly based. What we need is search for fundamentals, not reiteration of traditions born in days when men knew even less than we do now.

Camus - “Men are never convinced of your reasons, of your sincerity, of the seriousness of your sufferings, except by your death. So long as you are alive, your case is doubtful; you have a right only to their skepticism.”

Jefferson - “If we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and the charlatanism which his biographers [Gospels] father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an impostor... We find in the writings of his biographers matter of two distinct descriptions. First, a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticisms and fabrications... That sect [Jews] had presented for the object of their worship, a being of terrific character, cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust... Jesus had to walk on the perilous confines of reason and religion: and a step to right or left might place him within the gripe of the priests of the superstition, a blood thirsty race, as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. They were constantly laying snares, too, to entangle him in the web of the law... That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore.

[Letter to William Short, 4 August, 1820]”

I suspect this Short is the son or grandson of a man who was sent from England to teach him Newton's alchemy for one year when Thomas was at William and Mary.

Ingersoll - “Not one of the orthodox ministers dare preach what he thinks if he knows a majority of his congregation think otherwise. He knows that every member of his church stands guard over his brain with a creed, like a club, in his hand. He knows that he is not expected to search after the truth, but that he is employed to defend the creed. Every pulpit is a pillory, in which stands a hired culprit, defending the justice of his own imprisonment.”

What follows might disappear in the usual bait and switch Google tactic so please look up the book yourself if that happens - here is the title. THE BOOK OF DJEHUTI
By José Miguel Báez

https://books.google.ca/books?id=8TZ...QpqICh2TGA3w#v
outhouse
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by outhouse »

But what is it you would like to debate?

"Far left wing studies with no credibility" for a thousand Alex

Or "My and others hatred of religion they don't understand" for 500 Alex
Robert Baird
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Robert Baird »

It is impossible to imagine talking into a potty and expecting to get a response which has any value. The upwelling smells and occasional flies or other creatures probably gathered all the wisdom you went there in search of.
outhouse
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by outhouse »

Robert Baird wrote: expecting to get a response which has any value. .

If the OP had value, it will be given in return.

Allegory for my name can be "dealing with crap"

Metaphor, "I can take all the crap and there is room for more"
Robert Baird
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Robert Baird »

Again - no quote. No argument ! Nothing of value.
outhouse
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by outhouse »

Robert Baird wrote:Again - no quote. No argument ! Nothing of value.
That is a description of your OP.


What do you want to debate exactly, its an unsupported convoluted mess that resembles a replacement hypothesis that was thought out by someone who does not know the evidence.
Robert Baird
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Robert Baird »

When I see an argument from anyone I will respond. No sense in casting pearls before you know what. Sophistic ego games no longer give me any sustenance.

Looking back on history and seeing names we associate with countries like France and England is not very accurate because the nobility was pan-tribal from long before and they were just as International as they still are through their corporate enterprises. One of the Eusebius people in this corporate Church/State admitted he bought the Bishopric of Paris for purely mercenary reasons and the handing out of monopolies or re-structuring of Divine Kings territories is evident throughout the ages. I did not know it until I did serious research that a second century Pope in Rome (while the Christians versus Lions show was playing at the local Collosseum) owned gladiators for profit. There were different parts of the world with different Churches then as now. The major battle for almost all of Christendom was the Roman versus Celtic Christian Church. So when you see the Cathars meet their end along with the many sects backing them including the Celtic Christians and Templars (etc.) you might ask who won? Was it France and Simon de Montfort? Here is a little from Wikipedia.

"The Avignon Papacy was the period from 1309 to 1377, during which seven successive popes resided in Avignon (then in the Kingdom of Arles, part of the Holy Roman Empire, and now in today's France) rather than in Rome.[1] This situation arose from the conflict between the Papacy and the French crown.

Following the strife between Philip IV of France and Pope Boniface VIII, and the death of his successor Benedict XI after only eight months in office, a deadlocked conclave finally elected Clement V, a Frenchman, as Pope in 1305. Clement declined to move to Rome, remaining in France, and in 1309 moved his court to the papal enclave at Avignon, where it remained for the next 67 years. This absence from Rome is sometimes referred to as the "Babylonian Captivity of the Papacy".[2][3] A total of seven popes reigned at Avignon; all were French,[4][5] and they increasingly fell under the influence of the French Crown. Finally, on September 13, 1376, Gregory XI abandoned Avignon and moved his court to Rome (arriving on January 17, 1377), officially ending the Avignon Papacy.

Despite this return, following Gregory's death on March 27, 1378, the breakdown in relations between the cardinals and Gregory's successor, Urban VI, gave rise to the Western Schism. This started a second line of Avignon popes, now regarded as illegitimate and known as antipopes. The second and final Avignon antipope, Benedict XIII, lost most of his support in 1398, including that of France; following five years of siege by the French, he fled to Perpignan on March 11, 1403."
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Peter Kirby
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Peter Kirby »

Robert Baird wrote:When I see an argument from anyone I will respond.
By the some token, where is your rational argument?
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
Robert Baird
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by Robert Baird »

Dear Peter

Atwill has many scholars who make the same argument - are you saying they are not rational?

Then we have numerous others who support the same arguments and extend the historical backdrop of Empire versus the commonly accepted religions which as Fukayama notes are tools of social engineers like himself. Have you read Fukayama? Jefferson - or any of those I quote - and prove they are shadows of the great liars I see quoted here all over the threads - like Philo and Josephus et al. Paid hacks and worse are all the rage as people continue to accept they never were brainwashed by the likes of Hirtius whose work is a major underpinning of this Empire (history). Do you know of Hirtius?

Now I do understand there are indeed a collection of possible approaches and openings for debate in what I have presented. I do not focus on little lies as much as I present an over-arching integration of reality. I look to motivations and through-lines of a broader era or locational context. I neither accept Flat Earth ideologies which kept people enslaved for more than a millennia nor any other local war and racial argument. They are all derived from those same motivated forces of power and money.

You may have heard about cell diffusion, esoterics and semiotics. You may know the most important or most factual sciences are breaking the lies into ever harder to maintain pissing contests - but so far I see little evidence of it. You seem to think neoplatonism (for one example) is something only remotely connected to a generality termed paganism and left at that.

There is a strong cultural underpinning you miss because of Classical History and Bible Narratives fostered in those paradigms. Far be it for me to suggest your efforts are wasted and like those who wail at walls in some remote sanctuary of Holy fools - doomed. But my history is being proven by science but the wars, racism, nationalism and old ideologies of religious controls (maintained in politics based on The Treaty of Westphalia or Rerum Novarum etc) of apocalyptic nonsensical manipulation are doomed. Or if I am wrong all humanity is doomed.

Surely someone here has enough knowledge to pick one assertion out of this integrated whole and see what is going on. Mr. Tulip seems to have a certain understanding via Acharya - and maybe some day others will listen too.

But being as you are the guru in chief here - (gurus should be shot according to Yoga - when they want fool-owers); I think I will exit and leave you to your mental masturbations. Please remove me from your members list and cleanse your site of the factual posts I have left for people to consider, if you wish.

Maybe you are so advanced in your scholarship that you could refute Je
outhouse
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Re: Know Rome - Know Jesus; No Rome = No Jesus

Post by outhouse »

Robert Baird wrote: Surely someone here has enough knowledge to pick one assertion out of this integrated whole and see what is going on. Mr. Tulip seems to have a certain understanding via Acharya - and maybe some day others will listen too.

So you follow the uneducated for advise, is this because you don't know any better?

Acharya is a quack who has been caught red handed dishonestly writing to sell her books. She has no knowledge of how history is determined, and created pseudohistory due to her severe lack of knowledge.

Butler University religion professor James F. McGrath describes her viewpoint as one that "once had some currency among scholars" in the 19th and early 20th centuries, but was subsequently abandoned


Atheist activist and fellow Christ mythicist Richard Carrier criticized her use of the inscriptions at Luxor to make the claim that the story of Jesus birth was inspired by the Luxor story of the birth of Horus


New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman discusses The Christ Conspiracy, which he calls "the breathless conspirator's dream". Ehrman says "all of Acharya's major points are in fact wrong" and her book "is filled with so many factual errors and outlandish assertions that it is hard to believe the author is serious."


"Mythicists of this ilk should not be surprised that their views are not taken seriously by real scholars, mentioned by experts in the field, or even read by them."
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