Joseph of Arimathea.

[Ben C. Smith]

A recently resurrected thread brought the following to my attention:

"Mark's" Joseph apo Arimathias asks for and receives three crucified, one of which recovers. Josephus apo Matthias asks for and receives one of three crucified who recovers:

Correspondent: Paul Tobin

Link: The Burial

Nitpick: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified; Mark narrates Joseph asking for the body of Jesus. If we imagine Joseph as a Jew acting out of piety like Tobit, then it is not a stretch to imagine him asking for all three bodies. But Mark does not actually say that.

Back to the quote:

Smoking gun excerpt:

The similarity in the names of the main protagonist is also considerable. In the same work, Josephus elucidated his distinguished ancestry. His grandfather, also named Joseph, begot Matthias his father in the tenth year of the reign of Archelaus (AD6). In the Greek text (the language Josephus wrote in) Joseph begot Matthias is rendered as Josepou Matthias. In Mark's gospel, Joseph of Arimathea is written in Greek as Joseph apo Arimathias, the similarity is curious. To quote Schonfield:

It is certainly curious that we have Josephus, himself a Josepou Matthias, begging the Roman commander for the bodies of three crucified friends, one of whom is brought back to life. [11]

When I tracked this statement down I found that footnote 11 names the source for this speculation as page 157 of The Passover Plot.

So that is one possibility for the origin of the place name Arimathea: it corresponds to Matthias, father of Josephus, which makes Joseph equal Josephus in some (presumably symbolic) way. I must admit, this was a new one for me.

Here is one that was not at all new to me, from Peter Kirby:

Richard Carrier speculates, "Is the word a pun on 'best disciple,' ari[stos] mathe[tes]? Matheia means 'disciple town' in Greek; Ari- is a common prefix for superiority."[99] Since commentators have seen the burial by the outsider Joseph of Arimathea as a contrast to the failure of the disciples and intimates of Jesus, the coincidence that Arimathea can be read as "best disciple town" is staggering. Indeed, it is good evidence that Joseph of Arimathea is a fictional character and that the tomb burial story in the Gospel of Mark is also fictional.

Footnote 99 on that page indicates that the source was private correspondence with Carrier.

So that is another possibility for the origin of the place name Arimathea: it means best disciple town, and is a Marcan fancy.

There is also a more traditional viewpoint on this topic, and that is that we are supposed to understand Joseph of Arimathea (Ἰωσὴφ ὁ ἀπὸ Ἁριμαθαίας in Mark 15.43) as hailing from a town called Ramah (height) or Ramoth (heights), of which there were apparently several in the region. This name gets rendered as Ramathaim-Zophim (הָרָמָתַ֛יִם צוֹפִ֖ים) in 1 Samuel 1.1 (1 Kingdoms 1.1 LXX: Αρμαθαιμ Σιφα), or as just plain Αρμαθαιμ in 1 Kingdoms 1.3, 19 LXX. In Joshua 20.8 LXX it comes out as Αρημωθ. Joshua 19.36 in Vaticanus has Αρμαιθ where in Alexandrinus we find Ραμα. Also possibly related is the epistle of Demetrius to Lasthenes (1 Maccabees 11.32-37 = Josephus, Antiquities 13.4.9 §127-129a), which mentions the taking possession of the three districts of Aphairema, Lydda, and Rathamin/Ramathain (Ραθαμιν in 1 Maccabees 11.34, but Ραμαθαιν in Antiquities 13.4.9 §127).

(The names with an initial R are simply anarthrous, whereas those with an initial A are including the Hebrew definite article in the name.)

So that is another possibility for the origin of the place name Arimathea: it is a variant of the place name Ramoth.

Are there other viable options? If so, what are they? And what does each of the options above have to commend it to us?

I will confess outright that I currently lean heavily toward the third option: Ramoth. It seems a fairly easy derivation, so far as names go from Hebrew into Greek. If you hold to either of the first two, what am I missing?

Ben.

[maryhelena]

Ben C. Smith quoting:

Smoking gun excerpt:

The similarity in the names of the main protagonist is also considerable. In the same work, Josephus elucidated his distinguished ancestry. His grandfather, also named Joseph, begot Matthias his father in the tenth year of the reign of Archelaus (AD6). In the Greek text (the language Josephus wrote in) Joseph begot Matthias is rendered as Josepou Matthias. In Mark's gospel, Joseph of Arimathea is written in Greek as Joseph apo Arimathias, the similarity is curious. To quote Schonfield:

It is certainly curious that we have Josephus, himself a Josepou Matthias, begging the Roman commander for the bodies of three crucified friends, one of whom is brought back to life. [11]

When I tracked this statement down I found that footnote 11 names the source for this speculation as page 157 of The Passover Plot.

So that is one possibility for the origin of the place name Arimathea: it corresponds to Matthias, father of Josephus, which makes Joseph equal Josephus in some (presumably symbolic) way. I must admit, this was a new one for me.

<snip>

Ben.

A gospel link between ''Joseph apo Arimathias,'' and Joseph ben Matityahu is indeed intriguing....Methinks such a linkage offers far more scope for researching early christian origins than looking for a place name that would correspond to Arimathea.

Such a linkage runs straight into Hasmonean history. Josephus himself claiming Hasmonean descent. Hasmonean history with its tragedy of having it's last King and High Priest, Antigonus II Mattathias (known in Hebrew as Matityahu) hung on a stake, scourged and then beheaded - by the Romans.

If symbolism of one sort or another is invested in the gospel crucifixion story of a King of the Jews - then one interpretation that stands out is the crucifixion not just of Antigonus but the 'crucifixion' of the Hasmonean dynasty as a whole. The naming of one of the robbers as Barabbas - son of the father - could well symbolize that the Hasmonean dynasty was over, dead as to it's hopes of ever again ruling Judea.

As to the gospel story of Joseph of Arimathea taking down the body of Jesus from the cross and having it placed in his own tomb - perhaps reflections here of this ancient inscription that many think relates to the bones of Antigonus II Mattathias.

"I am Abba, son of Eleazar the priest," proclaimed the 2,000-year-old text. "I am Abba, the oppressed, the persecuted, born in Jerusalem and exiled to Babylon, who brought back Mattathiah son of Judah and buried him in the cave that I purchased."

http://www.haaretz.com/life/archaeology ... m-1.587977

---------------
Interestingly, Josephus places his story re the three crucified men at the Jewish/Roman war of 70 c.e. That is 100 years after Herod killed the Hasmonean, Hyrcanus II, uncle of Antigonus, in 30 b.c.e. (Hyrcanus returned to Jerusalem from Babylon after being exiled). Looks like it's not just the gospel writers who were interested in symbolism.....

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Nitpick: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified; Mark narrates Joseph asking for the body of Jesus. If we imagine Joseph as a Jew acting out of piety like Tobit, then it is not a stretch to imagine him asking for all three bodies. But Mark does not actually say that.

On the other hand, one could speculate that the other two are not yet dead.

Mark 15.43 ... and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph.

[Ben C. Smith]

Nitpick: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified; Mark narrates Joseph asking for the body of Jesus. If we imagine Joseph as a Jew acting out of piety like Tobit, then it is not a stretch to imagine him asking for all three bodies. But Mark does not actually say that.

On the other hand, one could speculate that the other two are not yet dead.

Mark 15.43 ... and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph.

Certainly. One could speculate. But the naked fact remains: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified. Nor does Mark narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three living.

Ben.

[Ben C. Smith]

A gospel link between ''Joseph apo Arimathias,'' and Joseph ben Matityahu is indeed intriguing....Methinks such a linkage offers far more scope for researching early christian origins than looking for a place name that would correspond to Arimathea.

That is true. A linkage between Joseph of Arimathea and Josephus ben Matthias would offer interpretive options probably not available if Arimathea is simply a place name.

But the question is: which option is the most likely to be correct? And why?

Ben.

[Tenorikuma]

Since Ar- is "mountain" in Aramaic, I don't suppose there are any mountain names that would fit…

[maryhelena]

A gospel link between ''Joseph apo Arimathias,'' and Joseph ben Matityahu is indeed intriguing....Methinks such a linkage offers far more scope for researching early christian origins than looking for a place name that would correspond to Arimathea.

That is true. A linkage between Joseph of Arimathea and Josephus ben Matthias would offer interpretive options probably not available if Arimathea is simply a place name.

But the question is: which option is the most likely to be correct? And why?

Ben.

The option that opens doors is surely a better option. A place name - and a subjective one at that - would be a dead-end......i.e. Arimathea = place X = end of story. Arimathea linked to Josephus ben Matthias opens the door to an avenue of research that, to my mind, is in need of serious attention.

The way forward in the search for early christian origins lies through the minefield that is the Josephan writings. Josephus calls the shots here not the Church 'fathers' - they are latecomers on the scene - a historical scene set by Josephus. A writer of Hasmonean descent.

[Ben C. Smith]

The option that opens doors is surely a better option.

By better option do you mean the option that is more likely to be true? Or do you mean the option that would be more fun to pursue? Or do you mean the option that would be more likely to lead to new discoveries down the road, however unrelated? Or...?

Ben.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Nitpick: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified; Mark narrates Joseph asking for the body of Jesus. If we imagine Joseph as a Jew acting out of piety like Tobit, then it is not a stretch to imagine him asking for all three bodies. But Mark does not actually say that.

On the other hand, one could speculate that the other two are not yet dead.

Mark 15.43 ... and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph.

Certainly. One could speculate. But the naked fact remains: Mark does not narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three crucified. Nor does Mark narrate Joseph of Arimathea asking for three living.

Ben.

It seems to me that these are not "naked facts". We do not know whether the two are still alive. Why should Joseph ask for the two living? The focus of Mark is also clearly no longer on the other two. I think you can not draw any more facts or conclusions here.

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

Since Ar- is "mountain" in Aramaic, I don't suppose there are any mountain names that would fit…

Interesting.