Is There a Trial of Jesus in Luke?

[Stephan Huller]

This has implications for Marcionism

http://www.jrdkirk.com/2015/05/09/jesus-trial-in-luke/

[Giuseppe]

Thanks for the link, Stephan.

In particular, I read:

Contrast Matthew and Mark, where Jesus is actually “guilty” of everything he is charged with: Christ, king of Israel. His innocence is known to the reader, who sees in the charges an ironic depiction of the truth.

I would use these words in reply to Kunigunde Kreuzerin and I would ask any supporter of markan priority:

are you really sure that ''an ironic description of truth'' corresponds to older age of story in question?

in many cases the irony serves to complicate more a previous story, to make it more complex than that it is (without thereby falling into a crude literalist reading), not simpler.

[andrewcriddle]

Just to clarify.

There is clearly a trial before Pilate.
The issue is whether there is a trial before the Jewish council.

Andrew Criddle

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

there is also no Passover amnesty in Luke

[Ben C. Smith]

there is also no Passover amnesty in Luke

Sinaiticus, W, Δ, Θ, Ψ, ƒ1, ƒ13, and various minuscules added one in at Luke 23.17. (I am wondering what an ancient readership would have made of 22.18 without 22.17; why is the crowd clamoring for Barabbas to be released instead of Jesus if there is no custom?)

Ben.

[Tenorikuma]

As far as Markan priority goes, there is an example of fatigue in the Sanhedrin scene. The priests call no witnesses (unlike Mark), but when they get the answer from Jesus they want, they ask "what further need have we of witnesses?", echoing Mark's statement, which follows a parade of false witnesses who can't get their story straight.

[outhouse]

This has implications for Marcionism

http://www.jrdkirk.com/2015/05/09/jesus-trial-in-luke/

Kirk is a weak professor IMHO

This one verse refutes his work


What charges were made against Jesus the Christ?

"They began to accuse him, saying, "We found this man perverting the nation, forbidding paying taxes to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king." - Luke 23:2

[Tenorikuma]

Some of the elements missing from Luke's trial scene show up later in Stephan's trial in Acts.

E.g. "crown" (stephanos) of thorns → Stephanos

[Kunigunde Kreuzerin]

As far as Markan priority goes, there is an example of fatigue in the Sanhedrin scene. The priests call no witnesses (unlike Mark), but when they get the answer from Jesus they want, they ask "what further need have we of witnesses?", echoing Mark's statement, which follows a parade of false witnesses who can't get their story straight.

Good observation Tenorikuma

next step: Who crucified Jesus in Luke?

23 But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed.
24 So Pilate decided that their demand should be granted.
25 He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, for whom they asked, but he delivered Jesus over to their will.
26 And as they led him away, ...
...
33 And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him,

No Roman soldier here. The first soldiers are mentioned in 23:36

[Ben C. Smith]

Who crucified Jesus in Luke?

23 But they were urgent, demanding with loud cries that he should be crucified. And their voices prevailed.
24 So Pilate decided that their demand should be granted.
25 He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, for whom they asked, but he delivered Jesus over to their will.
26 And as they led him away, ...
...
33 And when they came to the place that is called The Skull, there they crucified him,

No Roman soldier here. The first soldiers are mentioned in 23:36

It happens similarly in the gospel of Peter 2.5-6.24:

And he delivered him to the people before day one of unleavened bread, their feast. And having taken the Lord they pushed him, running, and said: Let us drag the son of God, since we have taken hold of his authority. And they put a purple garment on him and seated him upon a seat of judgment saying: Judge justly, king of Israel. And one of them bearing a thorny crown placed it upon the head of the Lord, and others standing there spit in his face, and others slapped his cheeks, others pierced him with a reed and some scourged him saying: With such honor let us honor the son of God. And they brought two evilworkers and crucified the Lord in their midst, but he himself was silent as if having no pain. And when they straightened up the cross they engraved: This is the king of Israel. And having placed his clothes before him they divided them, and cast a lot for them. But one of those evilworkers rebuked them saying: We have suffered thus on account of the evil things that we have done, but this man who has become the savior of men, what injustice has he done to you? And, having become indignant with him, they commanded that he not be leg-broken, so that he might die tormented. And it was midday, and darkness held all Judea fast. And they were afraid and agonized lest the sun should set while he still lived. It is written for them that the sun is not to set upon one who has been executed. And one of them said: Give him gall and vinegar to drink. And having mixed it they gave it to drink. And they fulfilled all things, and completed the sins upon their head. But many went about with lamps, thinking that it was night, and they fell. And the Lord shouted out saying: My power, power, you have forsaken me! And, having said that, he was taken up. And at that same hour the tapestry of the sanctuary of Jerusalem was torn in two. And then they pulled out the nails from the hands of the Lord and placed him upon the earth. And all the earth quaked and there was great fear. Then the sun shone and it was found to be the ninth hour. But the Jews rejoiced and gave his body to Joseph so that he might bury it, since he had seen as many good things as he had done. And having taken the Lord he bathed him and wrapped him in a shroud and bore him unto his own sepulcher, called the garden of Joseph.

The third-person plural verbs and pronouns just run rampant. It is the people, the Jews, who are apparently doing almost everything.

Ben.