I'm just an amateur in the matter. I think Mcn was the oldest gospel, and that all others are Catholic reactions to it (although John is a Gnostic gospel later catholicized). Vinzent 2014 has not persuased me entirely about it (it seems that he wants a proof based only on an alternative interpretation of words of Tertullian, Ireneus, etc, and not directly on Gospel texts), therefore I'm waiting to know more things about Klinghardt, language permitting.
I'm not saying that Mark is a marcionite gospel, but that seems only a mitigated Catholic reaction to Mcn (very soon to accuse Mcn of ''heresy'').
In this thread I just wanted to describe my view about Barabbas and Cyrenaic episodes.
And I wanted to raise only my personal dilemma: given a priori that all our literature comes ultimately from marcionite texts (Mcn + Paul's letters), which was the true origin of Marcionism? One can speak of Jewish origin of Marcionism? At moment I do not know the answer, but I'm reading the text of Ory translated by Tenorikuma (thank you
) and I'm learning that he was open to put the presumed ''100% Judaism of Jesus & christian origins'' as a consequence and not a cause of entire process.
I can propose a mental experiment. Imagine that a guy enters in this room and claims dogmatically that historical Jesus was an Aryan and antisemit. Our natural reaction would be that no, it's not true, historical Jesus was a Jew son of Jews at 100%, and therefore who claims the contrary is a bad nazi ideologue, etc.
Until here it's easy to reply. But prove to substitute any occurrence of 'Aryan and antisemit' into expression above with 'son of a Stranger God'. I think that the natural reaction of some Jews that listened the first time this claim would be to insist that Jesus was the true Jewish Messiah, True Son of YHWH, at the price of distorting the entire Jewish theology in order to say such a thing, *even though they had never heard of a Messiah who dies and rises again before then*.
I find prima facie that Ory's conclusion are not so different from my view.
All here. Until now.