War and Peace

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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JarekS
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War and Peace

Post by JarekS »

About 300 manuscripts from the list created by Larry Hurtado give us a picture of Christian literature from the 2nd to the 4th century. The list includes texts from the LXX and other Greek translations of the Tanakh, canonical writings of the NT, and apocryphal writings. Each of these groups LXX, NT and Apocrypha are represented similarly in terms of the number of manuscripts - 1/3 each. There are no manuscripts on Hurtado's list that we can attribute to Marcion.
The oldest inscription from any Christian church building is from a Marcionite church in a small village south of Damascus. The inscription, in Greek, identifies the building as the "gathering place [synagoge] of the Marcionites of the village of Lebabon of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ under the leadership of Paul the presbyter" and is dated 318–319. This inscription is evidence not only of the continuation of the Marcionite movement into the fourth century, but of the benefits it received from the toleration extended to the Catholic Church. The use of the word Marcionite, a term of opprobrium to other Christianity, shows the veneration in which the founder was held. It seems that after the Marcionites, the next founder of churches was the Empire itself. In 318 CE, as part of the pax deorum, the empire took care of the Christian movement, including the Marcionites, making bishops judges and local officials.
Thus, in the 4th century, Marcion's structure is still developing.
Why there are no remains of any of the writings attributed to Marcion's specific theology. Their enemies develop early Christian literature to gargantuan proportions and do not achieve any stunning results. Marcionites build churches with a short gospel from 200 years ago and an equally old Pauline Corpus with 10 letters?
It just wasn't like that.
Marcion was a co-founder of orthodoxy and his separation from the Roman commune of which he was a member had no theological basis. It was he who initiated the development of early Christian literature thanks to the success of his organization. Take a bunch of young people, teach them how to read, give them two books to start with and send them out into the field to acquire customers. That's why these books were needed. Once they manage to set up an outpost, provide them with further publications to retain customers and be more effective in convincing new ones. This is how the first Christian multi-level marketing structure, such as Amway, was created.

And there was no divorce during Marcion's lifetime. The division occurred as a result of ambition rivalry among the leaders of the Roman commune. The problem was Marcion's success, the scale of which meant that he had no one to report to in Rome. His competitors had great aspirations and little achievements, since they had to be supported by money and books. There was no specific theology of Marcion. His church offered the same Jesus as the Orthodox, which was a huge problem for the weaker side.
This was, of course, a time advantage, because later Rome had much greater funds and greater intellectual resources than Marcion. With this in mind, Marcion's structure developed using its own organizational know-how and all available Christian content.
They simply couldn't ignore popular products like the Virgin Mary, the Annunciation, Nativity Story and others. They therefore made use of all the gospels and all apocryphal literature to no less an extent than their Orthodox competitors.
Why was that so? Because the only solution to this conflict was a merger, until which both sides wanted to grow as much as possible to achieve a dominant position. Only such tactics of the Marcionites gave a chance for success. To be better in the organizational field, in missionary work. Don't waste your time on literature and don't get pushed into a content niche, use everything that is available.
It worked. The empire recognized them because it saw them as a valuable and large structure. The merger took place because it was in the state's interest.
This open policy of acceptance of various forms of Christianity by the Empire can still be seen in Nicene Creed: "Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven ;" Such a Pauline Savior defined in 325 CE (sic!) in a very open formula. Only after the empress's trip to Palestine, where she funded appropriate attractions for pilgrims, and after Christianity was recognized as the dominant religion, the formula was narrowed:
"who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man;he was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father." All older creeds also got Mary and Pilate. After 56 years, it was already possible to standardize the state religion.

BTW. It's always worked that way. Rome had its own civic cults and tried to maintain their dominance. But they built an Empire and other religions began to matter. At first, every foreign religion was superstitio, its followers were persecuted, then the religion was recognized, then it was subsidized and promoted, and its higher clergy were made officials. Christianity showed that it was suitable as the only universal religion and this was to ensure the empire's chance of survival.
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Peter Kirby
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Re: War and Peace

Post by Peter Kirby »

JarekS wrote: Thu May 02, 2024 6:59 pm There are no manuscripts on Hurtado's list that we can attribute to Marcion.
P69, also known as P. Oxy. 2383, is sometimes viewed as part of a copy of Marcion's text.

This can't be proven either way.
JarekS
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Re: War and Peace

Post by JarekS »

At last. Peter, thank You. For me it's *Ev, since you suggested it. But the problem is different. They all write in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Gospels, letters, apocalypses. Everyone, except...the Marcionists. Because the clergy of this largest organization said - why write and waste time and money?
They could have done just fine with this shortest gospel and the truncated Pauline Corpus. It's possible... For 200 years. Why not?
Just how to say it to keep a straight face. This scenario is unlikely.
The conflict was on another level. Building religious content on another. Both sides used the same resources and both sides created these resources. Anonymously, of course. What biblical scholars create on the basis of accusations is a reconstruction of the ingenuity of the accusers. Nothing more
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