Nomina Sacra

[Gorit Maqueda]

The Wikipedia article about Nomina Sacra seems quite exhaustive citing the occurrence of these shorthands in ancient papyri.

My question is: which is our oldest Greek papyrus where Jesus is cited by its complete name instead of IS / IC / IY?

[Stephan Huller]

IC according to Hurtado from what I unearthed. but it changes with new evidence. I have a vested interest in that as I don't think it's a short form but a transliteration of the Hebrew Eesh

[MrMacSon]

This is interesting -

James as ΙΥ, IC, ΙΣ

Jesus does not appear in any early sacred text claimed by Christianity - this is an undisputed fact. These texts use abbreviations [nomina sacra] and they spell IS/JS; no explanation was provided in that period, leaving us to speculate on the name. When we look at Judea in the first half of the 1st century, we see many people named Jesus, though not a single one fitting anything like the description of 'the divine man' of the textual tradition. Neither Jesus Chrest, nor Jesus Christ exist in the historical record.

His death

The various religious traditions described this 'divine man' as the undisputed leader of a religious community in Judea. The historical record contains one such group and it is not Christian; it was called, by outsiders, Essenes, based in Qumran, buried the Dead Sea Scrolls and its leader was James, until he died by an extra-judicial killing in 62.
...<snip>...

What we may know of James

Historically Ya'aqub/James has been referred to as the Tzadik (Hebrew: צדיק‎ "righteous one") and could be considered a miracle-worker.

• The Essene character of James "the Little," or "the Just," seems to rest on authentic tradition. According to Epiphanius ("Hæres." lxxviii. 14), he wore a golden plate on his forehead (comp. Meg. iv. 8, where this is characterized as "the way of the Gnostics" ["derek minut" or "ḥizonim"]), and no sandals. Another evidence of his Essene piety manifests itself in the following: "When, during a drought, he stretched forth his hands in prayer, rain immediately came" (comp. Ta'an. 23a et seq.).
  It is possible that the last words ascribed to Jesus were original with James the Just. (James, Jewish Encyclopedia)

And Eisenman:

• Eisenman first draws a portrait of the early community of James as a nationalistic, messianic, priestly, and xenophobic sect of ultra-legal pietism, something most of us would deem fanaticism. (Robert Eiseman's James the Brother of Jesus: A Higher-Critical Evaluation, Robert M. Price, Drew University)

James is JS

Since the public began to see translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Teacher of Righteousness appeared, many saw the obvious parallel: that here was the historical record of the gospel's 'divine man', known commonly (though erroneously) as Jesus. This view best fits the reliable evidence and thus is most likely correct.

The JS of the early sacred texts (later claimed and remade as Christian) is probably James.

There is no comparable figure to James in that period; for earlier, there is John the Baptiser; these two are in a line of such office holders:

• James was a rainmaker like Elijah, Honi the Circle-maker, and Hanan the Wise. Nathanael is another mask for James. Jesus finds him, conspicuously, sitting beneath a fig tree, the posture of rain-makers, as they waited (in a gesture of anticipative, imitative magic) for their prayers to be answered. (Robert Eisenman, The New Testament Code: The Cup of the Lord, the Damascus Covenant, and the Blood of Christ, reviewed by Robert M. Price)

https://sites.google.com/site/originsof ... s-iu-ic-is
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[perseusomega9]

can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?

[Gorit Maqueda]

[quote="perseusomega9"]can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?[/quote]
I suppose it would come from its Greek equivalent, picking the first and last letters (Iakobos or something like that).

My original question remains unanswered..

[MrMacSon]

can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?

I found this

Historically Ya'aqub (James) the brother of Rabbeinu Yehoshua, has been referred to as the Tzadik.

Here are a historical few quotes concerning Ya'aqub ha'Tzadik:

The Brother of Rabbeinu Yehoshua

• Eusebius of Caesarea (260-340 CE), in his Ecclesiastical History, tells us that Mar Ya'aqub (James) was "the Lord's brother, who had been elected by the Apostles to the episcopal throne at Jerusalem." (2.23). Ya'aqub was the brother of Adoneinu Yehoshua. The Syriac Apostolic Constitutions 8.35 (2nd Century) tell us that Ya'aqub was "the brother of Messiah according to the flesh...and one appointed Bishop of Jerusalem by the Lord himself."

Miracles Concerning Mar Ya'aqub

• Miracles attributed to Mar Ya'aqub are recorded by Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis (315-404 CE), stated that during a time of drought, Ya'aqub "lifted his hands to heaven and prayed and at once heaven sent rain...Thus they no longer called him by his name, but his name was, rather, the Righteous One ... to Ya'aqub alone, it was allowed to enter once a year into the Holy of Holies, because he was a Nazirite and connected to the priesthood. Hence Miriam [Mary] was related in two ways to Elizabeth and Ya'aqub was a distinguished member of the priesthood, because the two tribes alone were linked to one another, the royal tribe to the priestly." (Panarion 30). We are told again that Ya'aqub was "the first to whom the Lord entrusted his throne upon earth."

http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/articles/ ... uction.php

[perseusomega9]

Do you want a NT papyrus or any greek papyrus?

http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2006/10/ ... apyri.html

[Stephan Huller]

Exactly JS = James is fucking retarded

[MrMacSon]

The Wikipedia article about Nomina Sacra seems quite exhaustive citing the occurrence of these shorthands in ancient papyri.
My question is: which is our oldest Greek papyrus where Jesus is cited by its complete name instead of IS / IC / IY?

Is there one? ie. Is there an old Greek papyrus (LXX?) where IS / IC / IY can be confirmed to represent Jesus

My point above is there has been an assumption or assertions that the nomina scara IS / IC / IY? universally refer to Jesus.

They may not. There may be a number of scenarios.

[MrMacSon]

Exactly JS = James is fucking retarded

No. The point is JS, IS / IC / IY, etc. may mean a number of things, not necessarily Jesus