Nomina Sacra
- Gorit Maqueda
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Nomina Sacra
The Wikipedia article about Nomina Sacra seems quite exhaustive citing the occurrence of these shorthands in ancient papyri.
My question is: which is our oldest Greek papyrus where Jesus is cited by its complete name instead of IS / IC / IY?
My question is: which is our oldest Greek papyrus where Jesus is cited by its complete name instead of IS / IC / IY?
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Re: Nomina Sacra
IC according to Hurtado from what I unearthed. but it changes with new evidence. I have a vested interest in that as I don't think it's a short form but a transliteration of the Hebrew Eesh
Re: Nomina Sacra
This is interesting -
James as ΙΥ, IC, ΙΣ
Jesus does not appear in any early sacred text claimed by Christianity - this is an undisputed fact. These texts use abbreviations [nomina sacra] and they spell IS/JS; no explanation was provided in that period, leaving us to speculate on the name. When we look at Judea in the first half of the 1st century, we see many people named Jesus, though not a single one fitting anything like the description of 'the divine man' of the textual tradition. Neither Jesus Chrest, nor Jesus Christ exist in the historical record.
His death
The various religious traditions described this 'divine man' as the undisputed leader of a religious community in Judea. The historical record contains one such group and it is not Christian; it was called, by outsiders, Essenes, based in Qumran, buried the Dead Sea Scrolls and its leader was James, until he died by an extra-judicial killing in 62.
...<snip>...
What we may know of James
Historically Ya'aqub/James has been referred to as the Tzadik (Hebrew: צדיק "righteous one") and could be considered a miracle-worker.And Eisenman:
- The Essene character of James "the Little," or "the Just," seems to rest on authentic tradition. According to Epiphanius ("Hæres." lxxviii. 14), he wore a golden plate on his forehead (comp. Meg. iv. 8, where this is characterized as "the way of the Gnostics" ["derek minut" or "ḥizonim"]), and no sandals. Another evidence of his Essene piety manifests itself in the following: "When, during a drought, he stretched forth his hands in prayer, rain immediately came" (comp. Ta'an. 23a et seq.).
It is possible that the last words ascribed to Jesus were original with James the Just. (James, Jewish Encyclopedia)James is JS
- Eisenman first draws a portrait of the early community of James as a nationalistic, messianic, priestly, and xenophobic sect of ultra-legal pietism, something most of us would deem fanaticism. (Robert Eiseman's James the Brother of Jesus: A Higher-Critical Evaluation, Robert M. Price, Drew University)
Since the public began to see translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Teacher of Righteousness appeared, many saw the obvious parallel: that here was the historical record of the gospel's 'divine man', known commonly (though erroneously) as Jesus. This view best fits the reliable evidence and thus is most likely correct.
The JS of the early sacred texts (later claimed and remade as Christian) is probably James.
There is no comparable figure to James in that period; for earlier, there is John the Baptiser; these two are in a line of such office holders:https://sites.google.com/site/originsof ... s-iu-ic-is
- James was a rainmaker like Elijah, Honi the Circle-maker, and Hanan the Wise. Nathanael is another mask for James. Jesus finds him, conspicuously, sitting beneath a fig tree, the posture of rain-makers, as they waited (in a gesture of anticipative, imitative magic) for their prayers to be answered. (Robert Eisenman, The New Testament Code: The Cup of the Lord, the Damascus Covenant, and the Blood of Christ, reviewed by Robert M. Price)
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Last edited by MrMacSon on Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Nomina Sacra
can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe
- Gorit Maqueda
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:00 am
Re: Nomina Sacra
[quote="perseusomega9"]can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?[/quote]
I suppose it would come from its Greek equivalent, picking the first and last letters (Iakobos or something like that).
My original question remains unanswered..
I suppose it would come from its Greek equivalent, picking the first and last letters (Iakobos or something like that).
My original question remains unanswered..
Re: Nomina Sacra
I found thisperseusomega9 wrote:can anyone explain how we get james out of ya'aqub?
Historically Ya'aqub (James) the brother of Rabbeinu Yehoshua, has been referred to as the Tzadik.
Here are a historical few quotes concerning Ya'aqub ha'Tzadik:
The Brother of Rabbeinu YehoshuaMiracles Concerning Mar Ya'aqub
- Eusebius of Caesarea (260-340 CE), in his Ecclesiastical History, tells us that Mar Ya'aqub (James) was "the Lord's brother, who had been elected by the Apostles to the episcopal throne at Jerusalem." (2.23). Ya'aqub was the brother of Adoneinu Yehoshua. The Syriac Apostolic Constitutions 8.35 (2nd Century) tell us that Ya'aqub was "the brother of Messiah according to the flesh...and one appointed Bishop of Jerusalem by the Lord himself."
http://jgov.org/beit-netzarim/articles/ ... uction.php
- Miracles attributed to Mar Ya'aqub are recorded by Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis (315-404 CE), stated that during a time of drought, Ya'aqub "lifted his hands to heaven and prayed and at once heaven sent rain...Thus they no longer called him by his name, but his name was, rather, the Righteous One ... to Ya'aqub alone, it was allowed to enter once a year into the Holy of Holies, because he was a Nazirite and connected to the priesthood. Hence Miriam [Mary] was related in two ways to Elizabeth and Ya'aqub was a distinguished member of the priesthood, because the two tribes alone were linked to one another, the royal tribe to the priestly." (Panarion 30). We are told again that Ya'aqub was "the first to whom the Lord entrusted his throne upon earth."
Last edited by MrMacSon on Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nomina Sacra
Do you want a NT papyrus or any greek papyrus?
http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2006/10/ ... apyri.html
http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2006/10/ ... apyri.html
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe
Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.-Giuseppe
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- Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 12:59 pm
Re: Nomina Sacra
Exactly JS = James is fucking retarded
Re: Nomina Sacra
Is there one? ie. Is there an old Greek papyrus (LXX?) where IS / IC / IY can be confirmed to represent JesusGorit Maqueda wrote:The Wikipedia article about Nomina Sacra seems quite exhaustive citing the occurrence of these shorthands in ancient papyri.
My question is: which is our oldest Greek papyrus where Jesus is cited by its complete name instead of IS / IC / IY?
My point above is there has been an assumption or assertions that the nomina scara IS / IC / IY? universally refer to Jesus.
They may not. There may be a number of scenarios.
Last edited by MrMacSon on Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Nomina Sacra
No. The point is JS, IS / IC / IY, etc. may mean a number of things, not necessarily JesusStephan Huller wrote:Exactly JS = James is fucking retarded