Josephus again

[JarekS]

1. Changing the dating of the Acts of the Apostles proposed by several dozen biblical scholars to the years 100-150 CE is based on their belief that the ghostwriter called Luke uses Ant Josphus in it.
2. Luke is also the author of the Gospel according to Luke and its earlier version called *Ev, which was used by Marcion.
3. The year 70 CE is the first date when the Gospel according to Mark could have been written, but not the most probable. This Gospel is confirmed for the first time in 1 Clem, i.e. around 97 CE, according to the majority. The probability of Mark's gospel being written in 70 CE is the same as in 96 CE or 85 CE, etc. The probability distribution is flat and no circumstances distinguish any date in this range.

Taking into account only these three findings, it can be concluded that:
1. there was no canonical gospel before 100 AD
2. due to the triple tradition, Josephus is the source for all three synoptic gospels
3. James the Just appearing in the letter to the Galatians and in Josephus leads me to the conclusion that the only gospel of the historical Jesus for Paul were short texts from Ant. Therefore, he developed exclusively his resurrected Jesus as a source of Christian teaching available to him through revelation and exegesis of Scripture

[Giuseppe]

Are you saying that Canonical Luke precedes *Ev?
Are you saying that James the Just is mentioned by Josephus?

Are you saying that Jesus existed?

If you are agnostic about the historicity of Jesus, what is for you the best case for mythicism?

[JarekS]

The story of Jesus started in Ant. And was developed by ghostwriters in letters, in gospels. With invented tradition to cover the past. Is Jesus a historical person? It is a question to Josephus. Probably He is historical

[JarekS]

*Ev is first version of Luke gospel

[Giuseppe]

You are eluding the question. I can concede willingly that an original TF talked about an unnamed rebel crucified by Pilate.

But what is the true origin of Christianity for you, if you don't see a relation of cause-effect between that rebel and the early Christian sect behind the epistles and the first gospels?

In other words, what do you place in the omissis?

30 CE. Pilate crucified a rebel "king of the Jews".

In whiletime: ......

70-100 CE: The epistles were written.

100 CE: the first gospel is written.

[JarekS]

The letters were written after Ant was published. and before the appearance of Pauline Corpus in 100CE. Gospels after 100 CE.
The entire Christian tradition until 94 CE is an invention built on a short note a Ant.

[maryhelena]

The story of Jesus started in Ant.

It's one thing to say, as I do, that Josephus supports the gospel story - as a literary construct. It is quite another thing to claim that the Jesus story started in Antiquities.

One could argue, as I have done, that the Lukan writer needed Antiquities for his 15th year of Tiberius story (but I'm relooking at that idea...) but the other three gospels, Mark, Matthew and John, had no need for Antiquites in order to write their Jesus stories. The value of Antiquities is that it gives Pilate specific dates within the time of Tiberius. Thereby, supporting Luke and his 15th year of Tiberius - supporting a date for the Lukan writer's story - but a date the Lukan writer could well have chosen on the basis of working back 7 years from the end of the rule of Tiberius. Indicating that Josephus, in Antiquities, is a supporter not an originator of the Jesus story.

Additionally, Antiquites has the TF in a context of 19 c.e. - thereby supporting Mark, Matthew and John's decision to leave open the question of the date for their crucifixion stories. (an issue faced by Eusebius with the Acts of Pilate...) A situation allowed for when Philo chose to place Pilate in the time of Tiberius i.e. from 14 to 37 c.e.

[MrMacSon]

The story of Jesus started in Ant. And was developed by ghostwriters in letters, in gospels. With invented tradition to cover the past.

The main Jesus in the works of Josephus is Jesus ben Saphat/Sapphas/Sapphias.
See Frans Vermeiren's 2017 book, A Chronological Revision of the Origins of Christianity

Lena Einhorn noted use of Josephus in her 2016 book, A shift in Time: How Historical Documents Reveal the Surprising Truth about Jesus . Also see https://lenaeinhorn.se/21/wp-content/up ... .11.25.pdf

[maryhelena]

The story of Jesus started in Ant. And was developed by ghostwriters in letters, in gospels. With invented tradition to cover the past.

The main Jesus in the works of Josephus is Jesus ben Saphat/Sapphas/Sapphias.
See Frans Vermeiren's 2017 book, A Chronological Revision of the Origins of Christianity

Lena Einhorn noted use of Josephus in her 2016 book, A shift in Time: How Historical Documents Reveal the Surprising Truth about Jesus . Also see https://lenaeinhorn.se/21/wp-content/up ... .11.25.pdf

Outside of Josephus there is no historical evidence for these two figures.

[JarekS]

Outside of Josephus there is no historical evidence for these two figures.
It is not important. Invented hero is even better. Jesus ben Ananias, ben Sepphat, James' brother, and the last one ben Miriam called Christ. Tradition of historical Jesus was invented