back to the drawing board? the missing sondergut Marcion

[Secret Alias]

Mark 1:1

Origen Commentarii in Ephesios (Fragmenta e catenis) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1460
Biblio:
GREGG J.A.F., The commentary of Origen upon the epistle to the Ephesians, Journal of Theological Studies 3 (1902), 234-244 ; 398-420 ; 554-576.
8 (p.242, l.23 - <) BP3

Romans 16:25

Commentarii in Ephesios (Fragmenta e catenis) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1460
Biblio:
GREGG J.A.F., The commentary of Origen upon the epistle to the Ephesians, Journal of Theological Studies 3 (1902), 234-244 ; 398-420 ; 554-576.
8 (p.242, l.23 - < /) BP3

I remember this. This is Marcionite too. De principiis (2)
Date: ca.229 - ca.230
Genre: -
Theme: Faith and Christian Reflection
Clavis: 1482
Biblio:
CROUZEL H., SIMONETTI M., SC 252 (1978) : livres 1 et 2 ; SC 268 (1980) : livres 3 et 4.
1 4 § 1 (p.168, l.33) BP3
4 1 § 7 (p.290, l.218) BP3

Commentarii in Matthaeum (fragmenta) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1450
Biblio:
KLOSTERMANN E., BENZ E., GCS 41,1 (1941), passim 13-235.
1 (p.13, l.1) BP3
Fragmenta e catenis in Romanos (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1457
Biblio:
STAAB K., Neue Fragmente aus dem Kommentar des Origenes zum Römerbrief, Biblische Zeitschrift 18 (1929), 74-82.

Many of these were Marcionite too from memory Commentarii in Iohannem (5)
Date: ca.231 - ca.248
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1453
Biblio:
PREUSCHEN E., GCS 10 (1903), 3-480 ; 562-563.
1 § 22 (p.8, l.5 - <) BP3
1 § 79 (p.18, l.12 - <) BP3
1 § 81 (p.18, l.18 - <) BP3
1 § 85 (p.19, l.6) BP3

Mark 1:1

Commentarii in Iohannem
6 § 128 (p.134, l.19 - <) BP3

Romans 16:25
Commentarii in Iohannem (3)
Date: ca.231 - ca.248
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1453
Biblio:
PREUSCHEN E., GCS 10 (1903), 3-480 ; 562-563.
6 § 25 (p.111, l.24 - < >) BP3
13 § 101 (p.241, l.1 - >) BP3
13 § 306 (p.273, l.7 - < >) BP3

Mark 1:1
Contra Celsum (1)
Date: ca.248 - ca.249
Genre: -
Theme: Faith and Christian Reflection
Clavis: 1476
Biblio:
BORRET M., SC 132 (1967) : livres 1-2 ; SC 136 (1968) : livres 3-4 ; SC 147 (1969) : livres 5-6 ; SC 150 ( 1969 ) : livres 7-8.
2 4 (p.290, l.26 - <) BP3

Romans 16:25
Contra Celsum (2)
Date: ca.248 - ca.249
Genre: -
Theme: Faith and Christian Reflection
Clavis: 1476
Biblio:
BORRET M., SC 132 (1967) : livres 1-2 ; SC 136 (1968) : livres 3-4 ; SC 147 (1969) : livres 5-6 ; SC 150 ( 1969 ) : livres 7-8.
2 4 (p.288, l.12 - )) BP3
3 61 (p.142, l.11) BP3

[Peter Kirby]

Mark 1:1

Origen Commentarii in Ephesios (Fragmenta e catenis) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1460
Biblio:
GREGG J.A.F., The commentary of Origen upon the epistle to the Ephesians, Journal of Theological Studies 3 (1902), 234-244 ; 398-420 ; 554-576.
8 (p.242, l.23 - <) BP3

Romans 16:25

Commentarii in Ephesios (Fragmenta e catenis) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1460
Biblio:
GREGG J.A.F., The commentary of Origen upon the epistle to the Ephesians, Journal of Theological Studies 3 (1902), 234-244 ; 398-420 ; 554-576.
8 (p.242, l.23 - < /) BP3

I remember this. This is Marcionite too. De principiis (2)
Date: ca.229 - ca.230
Genre: -
Theme: Faith and Christian Reflection
Clavis: 1482
Biblio:
CROUZEL H., SIMONETTI M., SC 252 (1978) : livres 1 et 2 ; SC 268 (1980) : livres 3 et 4.
1 4 § 1 (p.168, l.33) BP3
4 1 § 7 (p.290, l.218) BP3

Commentarii in Matthaeum (fragmenta) (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1450
Biblio:
KLOSTERMANN E., BENZ E., GCS 41,1 (1941), passim 13-235.
1 (p.13, l.1) BP3
Fragmenta e catenis in Romanos (1)
Date: ca.222 - ca.252
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1457
Biblio:
STAAB K., Neue Fragmente aus dem Kommentar des Origenes zum Römerbrief, Biblische Zeitschrift 18 (1929), 74-82.

Many of these were Marcionite too from memory Commentarii in Iohannem (5)
Date: ca.231 - ca.248
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1453
Biblio:
PREUSCHEN E., GCS 10 (1903), 3-480 ; 562-563.
1 § 22 (p.8, l.5 - <) BP3
1 § 79 (p.18, l.12 - <) BP3
1 § 81 (p.18, l.18 - <) BP3
1 § 85 (p.19, l.6) BP3

Mark 1:1

Commentarii in Iohannem
6 § 128 (p.134, l.19 - <) BP3

Romans 16:25
Commentarii in Iohannem (3)
Date: ca.231 - ca.248
Genre: -
Theme: Exegesis, Scripture Commentaries
Clavis: 1453
Biblio:
PREUSCHEN E., GCS 10 (1903), 3-480 ; 562-563.
6 § 25 (p.111, l.24 - < >) BP3
13 § 101 (p.241, l.1 - >) BP3
13 § 306 (p.273, l.7 - < >) BP3

Contra Celsum (1)
Date: ca.248 - ca.249
Genre: -
Theme: Faith and Christian Reflection
Clavis: 1476
Biblio:
BORRET M., SC 132 (1967) : livres 1-2 ; SC 136 (1968) : livres 3-4 ; SC 147 (1969) : livres 5-6 ; SC 150 ( 1969 ) : livres 7-8.
2 4 (p.290, l.26 - <) BP3

Okay?

[Secret Alias]

Origen knew. Marcion's gospel began with Mark 1:1 and he was aware of the Marcionite claim that this gospel was the one Paul meant by "my gospel."

[Peter Kirby]

Okay.

What about the OP's question?

[Secret Alias]

It's hard to bring up Secret Mark with certain people here. But clearly there are good reasons for believing that Clement's unwillingness to bring up Secret Mark was shared by Origen.

[Secret Alias]

I forgot to corroborate Romans 2:16 with Mark 1:1. I can do that too. The Marcionites held that there was only one evangelist, only one apostle. This is a Samaritan formulation of the word apostle and is based on the authority of Moses. Moses was the apostle of God. There are no other apostles besides Moses. Moses also wrote a Torah. Paul was understood to have written the gospel by the Marcionites presumably as a new Torah. Luke is a red herring. A made up distraction from Paul the second Moses. The true Moses.

[StephenGoranson]

"...unwillingness to bring up Secret Mark was shared by Origen."

What, beyond silence, if anything expressible, possessed you to claim that about Origen?

[Secret Alias]

The frequency with which he brings up Romans 2:19 and 16:25 he references Mark 1:1 and the Marcionites.

[Peter Kirby]

SA, sure, a word to the wise is sufficient here. And yet...

Are you trying to help me with the question in the OP? Maybe I am too dense to see the answer or the development towards one.

[Secret Alias]

What is the point of discussing Luke in relation to Marcion? What is the value in this? They didn't think Luke wrote the gospel. They attributed that to Paul THE apostle.