Serapis-Christian links overlays??

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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:09 am

cheers Robert. That whole thread is interesting, from your OP to this post http://www.booktalk.org/post94924.html#p94924 -
So then Murdock goes on through the following sections outlining what was going on in Judea and Syria, as well as Rome and Alexandria that constituted factors in what became Christianity. First off, in 37 CE Emperor Caligula appointed Herod Agrippa I as King of Judea. He owed a great deal of money to Philo's wealthy brother in Alexandria. This was the source of "much Jewish unrest" and Herod was basically hated. Murdock points out that "This selection probably served as the seed of the anti-Herodianism that eventually made its way into Christianity, a new religion specifically created to remove these thorny issues from the Empire." (p.458)

Then comes the appointment of Vespasian as governor of Palestine by Emperor Nero (37-68 CE). Vespasian was quickly surrounded by "flatterers" and with that came claims that he was "fulfillment of prophecy and the world's savior" as spread around by Josephus ....

... Vespasian later traveled to Alexandria where it is said that when he entered the Serapium Basilides appeared in front of him, "miraculously." He apparently had with him "sacred leaves, chaplets, and cakes." Latin historian Suetonius (69/75-c. 130 AD/CE) said in "The Deified Vespasian" (The Live of the Caesars, 8.7.2) that Vespasian performed miracles after this apparition such as healing a blind man and a lame man in the name of Serapis.

The destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 CE resulted and the trouble continued into the second century in Palestine and at Alexandria. It is only in the second century, after the revolt against Trajan in 116 CE, "that the major elements of Christian myth find there way into literature." (p.461)

http://www.booktalk.org/post94924.html#p94924 -
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection by DM Murdock, Acharya S
.
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:38 am

Serapea were present in Egypt, Rome, and what is now Turkey (then Asia Minor?).

Hadrian had one -
Protected by a monumental dome, the sanctuary was composed of a public area and a more intimate subterranean part that was dedicated to the chthonic aspect of Serapis.

To mark the inauguration of his temple, Hadrian struck coinage that carry his effigy accompanied by Serapis, upon a dais where two columns support a round canopy. In this manner, the emperor became synnaos, a companion of the god's arcane naos and equal beneficiary of the cult of Serapis at Canopus.
The Serapeum of Ostia Antica [Rome] was inaugurated in 127 CE and dedicated to the syncretic cult of Jupiter Serapis.

It is a typical Roman sanctuary, on a raised platform and with a row of columns at the entrance, where a mosaic representing Apis in a typically Egyptian manner can still be seen. From this temple likely came the statue that Bryaxis copied for the Serapeum in Alexandria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapeum#Ostia_antica
Serapia were being built in 'Turkey' in the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD/CE - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapeum#Serapea_in_Turkey
.
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:49 am

Ammianus Marcellinus "wrote in Latin a history of the Roman empire from the accession of Nerva (96) to the death of Valens at the Battle of Adrianople (378)[15] in effect writing a continuation of the history of Tacitus. He presumably completed the work before 391, since at 22.16.12 he praises the Serapeum in Egypt as the glory of the empire; but in that year the Emperor granted the temple grounds to the Christian bishop, which provoked the pagans to barricade themselves in the temple, plundering its contents and torturing Christians, leading to the temple's destruction in the ensuing mob violence. Res Gestae (Rerum gestarum Libri XXXI) was originally in thirty-one books, but the first thirteen are lost (modern historian T.D. Barnes argues that the original was actually thirty-six books, which would mean that eighteen books had been lost). The surviving eighteen books cover the period from 353 to 378. As a whole it has been considered extremely valuable, being a clear, comprehensive and in general impartial account of events by a contemporary."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammianus_Marcellinus#Work

15 The Eye of Command, Kimberly Kagan, University of Michigan Press, 2006. p. 22]
"Serapeum, quod licet minuatur exilitate verborum, atriis tamen columnariis amplissimis et spirantibus signorum figmentis et reliqua operum multitudine ita est exornatum, ut post Capitolium, quo se venerabilis Roma in aeternum attollit, nihil orbis terrarum ambitiosius cernat."

Res Gestae, XXII, 16

"The Serapeum, splendid to a point that words would only diminish its beauty, has such spacious rooms flanked by columns, filled with such life-like statues and a multitude of other works of such art, that nothing, except the Capitolium, which attests to Rome's venerable eternity, can be considered as ambitious in the whole world."
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:17 am

John Yarker made various references to Serapis in the-arcane-schools/aryan-civilisation-and-mysteries

The Arcane Schools by John Yarker - there are references to "the cross being common to Jesus Christ and Serapis" (p126 and p224)

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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:30 am

The Eleusinian, Serapian, and Mythraic Mysteries were all very popular in Rome, and spread into all countries, practising their rites side by side with the aboriginal Mysteries, for the utmost tolerance existed amongst all the priests. All are known to have existed in Britain, flourishing generally until the 4th century of Christianity, and practised long after in secret.

Besides the State Mysteries, Alexandria became the centre whence radiated the Mystic schools, the Cabala, Gnosticism, Neo-Platonism, and Arcane Christianity. The Emperor Hadrian when Consul reports that there were no bishops of Christ, Chiefs of Synagogues, Theurgists, Diviners, who were not also worshippers of Serapis, implying a general recognition of Serapis as the personal God of the world, and that the living God is the same under many names.

The learned Cardinal Henry Newman asserts that the Arcane Discipline of the early Alexandrian Church was the introduction of Platonism into Christianity; it was, however, that Platonism formed by the union of Greek thought with Egyptian Osirianism in the Mysteries of Serapis. Mr. C. W. King in his "Gnostics" says "there can be no doubt that the head of Serapis, marked as the face is by a grave and pensive majesty, supplied the first idea for the conventional portraits of the Saviour."

It is equally certain that the images of Isis and Horus continued to be manufactured, and were renamed as those of the Virgin and Child. Amongst the noted Christians of this period, who were Serapians and Christians or Members of the Arcane Discipline, were Origen and Ammonius Saccus, the catechists; the latter established a School in which he obligated his Disciples {97} to secrecy.19

It is known also that the early Christians used the Tau cross on their tombs.19 There seems even no doubt that the pre-Christian Rites had a Mystery of the Cross, and there is said to be an ancient painting in Egypt of a candidate laid upon a cruci-form bier. Justin Martyr observes that
  • "the sign of the cross is impressed on all nature. There is scarcely a handicraftsman but uses the figure of it amongst the implements of his industry. It forms a part of man himself, as may be seen when he extends his arms in prayer."
http://hermetic.com/yarker/the-arcane-s ... eries.html

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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:48 am

Serapis is said to have been Osiris while in Hades; and hence the Serapian initiation might have represented the death of Osiris; but leaving the lesson of his resurrection for a subsequent initiation.

Dead Sea Scrolls and the Life of the Ancient Essene by Raymond W. Bernard; p62

(the context is hard to determine b/c the preceding pages are missing in google books)
So, we have references to baptism, the cross, and now resurrection in relation to the pre-Christian 'religion' of Serapis.

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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by GakuseiDon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:18 am

Robert Tulip wrote:This intentional founding of the worship of Serapis as a new imaginary religion followed the Greek conquest of Egypt by Alexander the Great, and aimed to provide a belief system that would be acceptable to both Egyptians and Greeks...

Serapis, being purely invented and acknowledged as such, lacked the subversive political force of an incarnate messiah who claimed to be real and not imaginary. Serapis could not compete with the new doctrine.
Do you have any ancient sources that say Serapis was "purely invented and acknowledged as such", thereby lacking 'subversive political force of an incarnate messiah'? Two ancient sources that write about the origin of Serapis are Plutarch and Tacitus.

Plutarch writes: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... is*/B.html
  • In fact, men assert that Pluto is none other than Serapis and that Persephonê is Isis, even as Archemachus137 of Euboea has said, and also Heracleides Ponticus138 who holds the oracle in Canopus to be fan oracle of Pluto...

    It is better to identify Osiris with Dionysus141 and Serapis with Osiris,142 who received this appellation at the time when he changed his nature. For this reason Serapis is a god of all peoples in common, even as Osiris is; and this they who have participated in the holy rites well know.

    It is not worth while to pay any attention to the Phrygian writings,143 in which it is said that Serapis was the son of Heracles... nor must we fail to contemn Phylarchus, who writes that Dionysus was the first to bring from India into Egypt two bulls, cand that the name of one was Apis and of the other Osiris. But Serapis is the name of him who sets the universe in order, and it is derived from "sweep" (sairein), which some say means "to beautify" and "to put in order."144 As a matter of fact, these statements of Phylarchus are absurd, but even more absurd are those put forth by those who say that Serapis is no god at all, but the name of the coffin of Apis...

    Most of the priests say that Osiris and Apis are conjoined into one, thus explaining to us and informing us that we must regard Apis as the bodily image of the soul of Osiris.148 But p73it is my opinion that, if the name Serapis is Egyptian, it denotes cheerfulness and rejoicing, and I base this opinion on the fact that Egyptians call their festival of rejoicing 'sairei'.
Plutarch also gives the origin story regarding the vision of Ptolemy. Tacitus repeats that story below, and also mentions Vespasian consult the god. Tacitus writes: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ories.html
  • In the months during which Vespasian was waiting at Alexandria for the periodical return of the summer gales and settled weather at sea, many wonders occurred which seemed to point him out as the object of the favour of heaven and of the partiality of the Gods. One of the common people of Alexandria, well known for his blindness, threw himself at the Emperor's knees, and implored him with groans to heal his infirmity. This he did by the advice of the God Serapis, whom this nation, devoted as it is to many superstitions, worships more than any other divinity...

    Vespasian thus came to conceive a deeper desire to visit the sanctuary of Serapis, that he might consult the God about the interests of his throne...

    The origin of this God Serapis has not hitherto been made generally known by our writers. The Egyptian priests give this account. While Ptolemy, the first Macedonian king who consolidated the power of Egypt, was setting up in the newly-built city of Alexandria fortifications, temples, and rites of worship, there appeared to him in his sleep a youth of singular beauty and more than human stature, who counselled the monarch to send his most trusty friends to Pontus, and fetch his effigy from that country...

    On their arrival at Sinope, they delivered to Scydrothemis the presents from their king, with his request and message...He summoned an assembly, and explained to them the bidding of the God, the visions of Ptolemy and himself... The story becomes at this point more marvellous, and relates that the God of his own will conveyed himself on board the fleet, which had been brought close to shore, and, wonderful to say, vast as was the extent of sea that they traversed, they arrived at Alexandria on the third day...

    The God himself, because he heals the sick, many identified with Aesculapius; others with Osiris, the deity of the highest antiquity among these nations; not a few with Jupiter, as being supreme ruler of all things; but most people with Pluto, arguing from the emblems which may be seen on his statues, or from conjectures of their own.
Both writers refer to how Serapis is identified with many gods: Aesculapius; Osiris; Jupiter; 'most people with Pluto.' This was common in their day. I don't see that they would have had any issue with adding Christ to the mix, assuming that Christians were prominent enough at the time. But it also didn't mean that Serapis was a 'made-up' god, and I don't know of any evidence in ancient sources that asserted that it was 'common knowledge'.
Robert Tulip wrote:The invention of Serapis was an even more recent instructive model as a way to give a popular facelift to tired old myths that only worked in a mono-racial society. The most plausible basis for the production of the New Testament is that it was deliberately invented by the Jewish Therapeut Brotherhood of Alexandria, intentionally targeting the new multiracial societies of the common era with a story that would provide a lowest common denominator for all to believe, incorporating a plausible cosmic critique of the lax ethics of the time. Christianity relied on deception to achieve its popularity, a deception so successful that Christians today are still hoodwinked by the fiction that Jesus is more historical than Serapis, Osiris or Zeus.
What is the evidence that there was a "Jewish" Therapeut Brotherhood in Alexandria?
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Clive
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by Clive » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:32 am

Blood wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:
The following is sourced from the editor at http://www.livius.org/hi-hn/ha/hist_aug.html

Among the many games that are played in the Historia Augusta is the invention of no less than 130 fake documents, most charmingly introduced in the introduction of the Life of Aurelian. Fake sources were not a new practice (cf. the invented letters in Plutarch's Life of Alexander). What is new, however, is that the author the Historia Augusta invents sources to disagree with them. This is, to the best knowledge of the author of this article, unique in ancient literature; the only possible (but unlikely) exception is, again, the source "Damis" that is used by Philostratus in his vie romance of Apollonius of Tyana.
You mean to tell me that ancient writers could actually invent fake letters, fake sources, and fake sources to disagree with the fake sources that agree with them ? That cannot possibly be true, because we are constantly told by New Testament scholars that this could never happen; at least, not with their sources, i.e. the NT, Josephus, Tacitus, Eusebius, et al.
Story telling is a critical part of how the human brain evolved. Once we have the perspective of the other, what is stopping the creation of more and more layers? The Christmas 2014 Dr Who actually had quite a few iterations of cycles of real unreal!
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"

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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by Clive » Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:36 am

There was an old lady who swallowed a fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly,
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a bird.
How absurd to swallow a bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a cat.
Imagine that, she swallowed a cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird.
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a dog.
My what a hog, to swallow a dog.
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat, to catch the bird,
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider,
that wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
I don't know why she swallowed the fly.
I guess she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a goat.
Just opened her throat and swallowed a goat!
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog ...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat.
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a cow.
I don't know how she swallowed a cow!
She swallowed the cow to catch the goat...
She swallowed the goat to catch the dog...
She swallowed the dog to catch the cat...
She swallowed the cat to catch the bird ...
She swallowed the bird to catch the spider
That wiggled and wiggled and tickled inside her.
She swallowed the spider to catch the fly.
But I dunno why she swallowed that fly
Perhaps she'll die.
There was an old lady who swallowed a horse -
She's dead, of course.

This song was originally posted at:
http://bussongs.com/songs/there-was-an- ... -a-fly.php
"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"

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MrMacSon
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Re: Serapis-Christian links overlays??

Post by MrMacSon » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:04 pm

GakuseiDon wrote: Do you have any ancient sources that say Serapis was "purely invented and acknowledged as such", thereby lacking 'subversive political force of an incarnate messiah'? Two ancient sources that write about the origin of Serapis are Plutarch and Tacitus.

Both writers refer to how Serapis is identified with many gods: Aesculapius; Osiris; Jupiter; 'most people with Pluto.' This was common in their day. I don't see that they would have had any issue with adding Christ to the mix, assuming that Christians were prominent enough at the time. But it also didn't mean that Serapis was a 'made-up' god, and I don't know of any evidence in ancient sources that asserted that it was 'common knowledge'.
You don't think Serapis was a 'made-up' god?

To which "time" are you referring that 'Christians were prominent enough'?

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