Real story of Jesus

[JarekS]

Josephus.
Due to Zuntz and Klinghardt's realignment of the dating of the Pauline Corpus and the first commercial gospel *Ev, the only logical conclusion is that the first literary creator to mention the historical Jesus is Josephus.
The authors of Paul's letters took the old fragmentary story from Ant Josephus and developed it towards resurrection and revelation supported by exegeses of the LXX. They did not think of creatively supplementing the hero's biography.
Paul's authors came up with the idea that Jesus from TF, about whose biography little is known, was resurrected and from this they derived the divine Jesus Christ or Christ Jesus. Sometimes Paul uses these words like a name and surname.

The gospel writers were more creative. They simply created a fictional narrative for a person about whom only what is known in Ant.

Jesus Christ seems to be a historical person about whom his future followers learned several dozen years after the fact, not from the gospels, letters, or oral tradition but from readers of the writings of a certain historian.
Funny. Simple. Could be a real thing

[Giuseppe]

the first commercial gospel *Ev,

I like a lot the expression. Thank you.

[JarekS]

You are welcome. Closer to truth than Sola Scriptura

[dbz]

Jesus Christ seems to be a historical person about whom his future followers learned several dozen years after the fact, not from . . . oral tradition but from readers of the writings of a certain historian.

• And then later created a fictional historical narrative for said "a historical person" using The Old Testament.

"Jesus Was Probably Constructed Using The Old Testament". YouTube. Godless Engineer. Jul 9, 2022. @time:00:10:16

[JarekS]

Yes exactly. Example. Henryk Sienkiewicz created the character of Petronius in his novel Quo Vadis using the original. Petronius actually existed as a historical figure. The narrative regarding Petronius in the novel Quo Vadis is the author's invention.

[dbz]

Petronius actually existed as a historical figure. The narrative regarding Petronius in the novel Quo Vadis is the author's invention.

• And likewise Abraham Lincoln of Indiana (born and mangered in Kentucky) actually existed as a historical figure.

The narrative regarding "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" (Wikipedia) is author Seth Greenberg's invention.

[JarekS]

Now it's time for the subtle difference between Petronius and Abraham Lincoln on the one hand, and Jesus on the other. Jesus appeared after 60 years in Ant Josephus. Nobody knew him before. Reader Ant saw this short story and said - interesting story, interesting unknown hero. It's a pity that he left behind only these few sentences. He really deserved more than that
It can be used today. To do this, we need to add a continuation. Tell his story through some testimonies. We need to create some disciples, some family, some Apostle. The resurrection will make him a divine being.
Yes, it can be made into a fascinating story for our apocalyptic sect.
Do You fill the difference ?

[Giuseppe]

Do you think that there was an original Testimonium in Josephus's book 18 of Antiquities?

I understand what is your point, only I think that it is not necessary to assume a reference to a rebel later replaced by the current TF. The episode of the Samaritan Impostor may be sufficient: he posed as the Messiah ben Joseph, he was despised by the Pharisee Josephus, probably he was against the Temple of Jerusalem, he was crucified by Pilate, his massacre provoked the pression of the Samaritan lobby against Pilate.

I am not arguing this as a fact, only I think that the idea of an original TF is definitely confuted.

[JarekS]

I am only interested in the content creation process. Someone read the Josephus stories and was inspired to use them in his religious project. Jesus ben Ananias, a whole lot of rebels, "sign prophets", Samaritan Impostor, John the Baptist, James the Just. Good material for recycling.
To this he added testimonies of continuity and heroes ensuring this continuity from the death of Jesus through the evangelists and Paul.
And everything arose as a result of reading Ant.
I have no opinion about TF - these analyzes of subsequent editorial layers look complicated, but the ex nihilo creation is much more suspicious to me.