Greek Monks Who Thought the Letter to Theodore was in the Mar Saba Monastery Before Morton Smith Arrives

[andrewcriddle]

According to Smith and Landau. Morton Smith said that he realized at Mar Saba that he had discovered a previously unknown letter of Clement against the Carpocratians. He took careful photographs which he only properly studied after leaving Palestine and arriving at Athens. This account makes it unlikely that he informed the monks at Mar Saba of his discovery of an alternative version of Mark.

Morton Smith's account apparently has him only becoming aware of the references in the letter to 'Secret Mark' after he had left Palestine.

Andrew Criddle

[StephenGoranson]

If such a 16th- or 17th-century mention in a publication existed, probably someone would have noticed it by now.
The Voss book was published in 1646, so any 16th-century (1500s) text could not have been about that volume.
Quesnell was not the first to doubt "Secret Mark." E.g., Pierson Parker did already in 1958.
Of course, some new information can appear, such as some in the April, 2024 issue of The Atlantic.

[Secret Alias]

Really? With you guys turning it into a gay gospel? There is going to be serious work conducted when anyone investigating is immediately questioned, "why are you so interested in this gay gospel? Don't you love the Church?" Been there. Done that. Dozens of times with the Church. You guys poisoned the well. It always becomes about assfucking and blowjobs. Thanks to you and your pals. Never was conducted in a professional manner. Quesnell shows it. He had the fucking manuscript. For almost three weeks. June 2 - 19. Study, study, study. Nothing. What more is there? Gay innuendo.

[StephenGoranson]

No evidence Smith told the monks in 1958.
One could call Smith an unreliable narrator.
But: "....secret Gospel of Mark....I couldn't suppress it: I'd already told Scholem...."

[Peter Kirby]

If such a 16th- or 17th-century mention in a publication existed, probably someone would have noticed it by now.
The Voss book was published in 1646, so any 16th-century (1500s) text could not have been about that volume.

You seem to be misreading the quote in two ways:

He remembers someone noting in some [monastic] publication that some did report seeing this in the 16th ? 17th ? century

The publication that he claims to "remember" is not given a date.

The referent of "this" cannot be the Voss book, for the reason you mention.

[Secret Alias]

Seraphim is on the way to becoming a saint in the Greek Orthodox Church https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_ ... liturgics) His day is December 26. Tselikas hints that Smith might have had help with his forgery. Could Seraphim's saintly status have been what prevented Tselikas from spelling it out. Let's see. In the book I've ordered they have photographs of Seraphim's handwriting. It's on page 144 forward. Seraphim is an important witness for authenticity. Doesn't "prove" authenticity. Just like those who think Morton Smith planted the book can't prove it. But Seraphim provides suggestions of authenticity.

[StephenGoranson]

I agree that the putatively-remembered publication was not dated--but I did not say that it was!
Merely, that it (of any date!) would probably have been brought forward by now.

[Peter Kirby]

I agree that the putatively-remembered publication was not dated--but I did not say that it was!
Merely, that it (of any date!) would probably have been brought forward by now.

Why do you immediately jump to that instead of wondering if there was some publication?

[StephenGoranson]

We agree (I guess) that he could well have meant, in effect, cited from an older text in a later publication.
Why I said that was "probably" mistaken is because he, and many others, for many years, have looked and found no such thing.

[Peter Kirby]

We agree (I guess) that he could well have meant, in effect, cited from an older text in a later publication.
Why I said that was "probably" mistaken is because he, and many others, for many years, have looked and found no such thing.

What is "no such thing"?