Greek Monks Who Thought the Letter to Theodore was in the Mar Saba Monastery Before Morton Smith Arrives

[StephenGoranson]

I was trying to address one point at that time, namely, whether Smith was in the Mar Saba tower library.
He was.
Perhaps you were thinking of the Jerusalem library, which may be, for most people, closed stacks.

On the handwriting, lots of people thought it looked like 18th-century writing, or late 17th or early 19th.
That's not news.
It was intended to look like ~18th-century writing.
But Agamemnon Tselikas found that it was a later modern anomalous imitation.

[StephenGoranson]

Smith does not mention showing it in 1958 to any monk.

[StephenGoranson]

No one claimed to see it before 1958.
Questions about authenticity started before QQ.

[Secret Alias]

No one saw Morton Smith plant the manuscript

[StephenGoranson]

His monk minder saw him bring books from his overnight allotment.

[Secret Alias]

That's proof that he planted books? Surely he told Seraphim about his discovery within 24 hours. The holy man must have recognized the unusual book with no cover and writing in the back pages. Not much goes on in a monastery. Prayers. Meals. Sleep. And books. Surely suspicions would have been raised about a strange book with a monumental discovery in it.

[StephenGoranson]

No one mentioned a "monumental discovery" before 1958.
Your "Surely...within 24 hours....must have....Surely...." does not make those speculations so.

[Secret Alias]

I've ordered this book which represents excerpts from Seraphim's seventy years of journal keeping at Mar Saba.



From this book I will find out where the original journals are stored and then with the help of some rich friends I will hired Greek students to go through the dates leading up to 1958, 1958 - 1961 and 1976 in particular for references to the book or Secret Mark. If in these references there is a reference to his knowledge of the pre-existence of the book at Mar Saba or the manuscript will you finally shut about about Morton Smith the forgery? Is that enough to appease you? Or do you just adapt the forgery hypothesis into a full blown conspiracy theory? If I believed in karma I would think you will get back all the dirt you've heaped on Morton Smith, but I don't believe in karma.

[Secret Alias]

The person who wrote the preface is still alive. https://jerusalem-patriarchate.info/por ... 9%CE%BB-7/

[Secret Alias]

More on the attitude of Greek Orthodox priests toward the document. This from a conversation I had with George Dragas and which I sent to my friend Harry Tzalas on May 26, 2015. He says he was there when Quesnell asked for the manuscript on June 1, 1983.

He said he is also good friends with Meliton and Dourvas. He said he baptized himself along with Meliton in the Jordan river. He also said he was there when the American professor Quesnell requested the document from Dourvas. He is going to look through his notes and give me more information.

Here are my notes from my conversation today with George Dragas Professor of Patristics formerly of Durham University:

Kallistos (Dourvas) - not an easy person to get along with but an honest man

the reason why the books were all move to the Patriarchate was to prevent monks from selling them ('losing' them as he put it)

the day Quesnell came to ask for the document Dragas was there.

He was standing with Kallistos when an American with a white beard came up and demanded to see the document that Morton Smith claimed to have discovered.

a text was shown to Dragas (Kallistos was his friend)

Kallistos said that there was a rude American who said he just came from the Patriarch and that he (Kallistos) should just give it to him

'I've just come from the Patriarch' sent to librarian

This man (Quesnell) interrupted conversations not patient (this dovetails with the advice Q got from the Catholic representative to just barge in and force his way to see the text qv)

Kallistos didn't take abuse from anyone

'You think I am a ===

annoyed with the American

Kallistos complained in Greek about all the people who came to look for the document

"You think we are here to just serve you"

Kallistos knew all about Smith's book and the document

He told Quesnell he had to go back out the door and come back and apologize and start over again

Quesnell mentioned the homosexual business and that it would threaten Christianity; Kallistos said that was nonsense.

Kallistos was a great man; he was so dedicated to the truth. He wouldn't allow for the destruction of the text because it was holy

he is so good that he wouldn't oblige the Patriarch if he thought the request was wrong

Dragas isn't sure what year this occurred in. He thought 1986 but then remembered he had been there many times in that period

His students were the Patriarch Theophilus and the second in command Theophanes (the Archbishop of Gerash)

They were in Jerusalem before 1981 and the Patriarch said George I think you should take care of our brothers ...

One time they interrupted their studies because the Patriarch at the time wanted them to come home

Dragas went to Jerusalem so that they would be allowed to submit their theses

Theophilus said he was not interested in a degree - he was a monk.

Dragas succeeded in convincing the Patriarch to allow them to continue.

They were working to complete their doctorate but they couldn't because of other obligations

It is impossible that the document was destroyed. Must be a religious reason

They kept it.

He will try and contact Kallistos out of the Orthodox Directory and ask him questions

Also he recommended that I write to Theophanes who is a good man. Tell him your sincere wish - that you talked to me (Dragas) - and maybe they will allow tests to be done.

He would try to convince them too as we all have an interest in the truth.

He said no one could smuggle a book into the library. He knew the library well. Impossible. He thinks its an authentic apocryphon from antiquity.