Celsus thought that Jesus was one of the victims of Alexander Ianneus

[Giuseppe]

When you were bathing, says the Jew, beside John, you say that what had the appearance of a bird from the air alighted upon you. And then this same Jew of his, continuing his interrogations, asks, What credible witness beheld this appearance? Or who heard a voice from heaven declaring you to be the Son of God? What proof is there of it, save your own assertion, and the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm

Ianneus crucified 800 Pharisees.

They are "those individuals who have been punished along with you".

[Giuseppe]

Jesus was famous to have been crucified.

Janneus was famous to have crucified.

Therefore the Jews thought that Janneus crucified Jesus.

[Giuseppe]

Even the Quran doesn't know Pilate in connection with Jesus, since it is based on the same Talmud that placed the death of Jesus by hand of the same Jews, under Janneus:

That they (The Jews) said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

— Quran 4:157–158[12]

[GakuseiDon]

When you were bathing, says the Jew, beside John, you say that what had the appearance of a bird from the air alighted upon you. And then this same Jew of his, continuing his interrogations, asks, What credible witness beheld this appearance? Or who heard a voice from heaven declaring you to be the Son of God? What proof is there of it, save your own assertion, and the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm

Ianneus crucified 800 Pharisees.

They are "those individuals who have been punished along with you".

Surely "what credible witness beheld this appearance" refers to those who witnessed the bird descend? In which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/ ... n-kjv.html

John 1

[15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
...
[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

[Giuseppe]

In which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:

which cannot explain why Celsus uses the plural to describe the group of the person who witnessed the presumed miracle:

the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you

You could realize easily it before that you mentioned the Fourth Gospel.

[GakuseiDon]

In which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:

which cannot explain why Celsus uses the plural to describe the group of the person who witnessed the presumed miracle:

the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you

He doesn't use the plural to describe the group of people who witnessed the presumed miracle. He uses the plural to describe the people who have been punished.

Origen believes that Celsus' Jew was referring to John the Baptist as the witness. The accusation:
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm

"When you were bathing", says the Jew, "beside John, you say that what had the appearance of a bird from the air alighted upon you." And then this same Jew of his, continuing his interrogations, asks, "What credible witness beheld this appearance? Or who heard a voice from heaven declaring you to be the Son of God? What proof is there of it, save your own assertion, and the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you?"

Origen makes it clear that the witness is John the Baptist:

It is in this way, accordingly, that John testifies when he says, "I beheld the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon Him. And I knew Him not; but He that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, Upon whom you will see the Spirit descending, and abiding on Him, the same is He that baptizes with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bear witness, that this is the Son of God."

Origen then criticises Celsus' Jew for incorrectly connecting John the Baptist with Jesus with regards to punishment:

And as it is a Jew who, in the work of Celsus, uses the language to Jesus regarding the appearance of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove, "This is your own testimony, unsupported save by one of those who were sharers of your punishment, whom you adduce", it is necessary for us to show him that such a statement is not appropriately placed in the mouth of a Jew. For the Jews do not connect John with Jesus, nor the punishment of John with that of Christ. And by this instance, this man who boasts of universal knowledge is convicted of not knowing what words he ought to ascribe to a Jew engaged in a disputation with Jesus.

So, who were the sharers of Jesus' punishment? Although not stated outright, they seem to have been the disciples of Jesus, whom were "not afraid to endure the same sufferings with their Master", with some of them being delivered over to death by Paul:

And besides this, one may well wonder how it happened that the disciples— if, as the calumniators of Jesus say, they did not see Him after His resurrection from the dead, and were not persuaded of His divinity — were not afraid to endure the same sufferings with their Master, and to expose themselves to danger, and to leave their native country to teach, according to the desire of Jesus, the doctrine delivered to them by Him...
...
... He saw, probably, that anything he might say about that apostle would require to be explained, in consistency with the fact that, after being a persecutor of the Church of God, and a bitter opponent of believers, who went so far even as to deliver over the disciples of Jesus to death...

[maryhelena]

Jesus was famous to have been crucified.

Janneus was famous to have crucified.

Therefore the Jews thought that Janneus crucified Jesus.

The Toledot Yeshu has it's Yeshu figure born under Jannaeus but his death, execution, is under Queen Helene. An online version of the Toledot Yeshu makes no mention of Alexander Jannaeus being involved in the execution, crucifixion, of the Yeshu figure.

After King Jannaeus, his wife Helene[5] ruled over all Israel

footnote 5. Salome Alexandra.

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Je ... edoth.html

Anyway, even if the Yeshu figure was among the 800 crucified by Alexander Jannaeus - there is no way to historically establish that was the case. Bottom line re the Toledot Yeshu story is that it's figure, Yeshu, was born and died under the Hasmoneans. The question is how to square that story with the gospel Jesus story. If one runs with a historical Jesus under Tiberius and PIlate - then no linkage is possible. For the ahistoricists it's open season to investigate - to check one literary story against another literary story, one allegory against another allegory.

[andrewcriddle]

Contra Celsum

After these matters this Jew of Celsus, instead of the Magi mentioned in the Gospel, says that Chaldeans are spoken of by Jesus as having been induced to come to him at his birth, and to worship him while yet an infant as a God, and to have made this known to Herod the tetrarch; and that the latter sent and slew all the infants that had been born about the same time, thinking that in this way he would ensure his death among the others; and that he was led to do this through fear that, if Jesus lived to a sufficient age, he would obtain the throne.

Celsus thought Jesus was born during the reign of Herod Antipas. Celsus did not think that Jesus was one of the victims of Alexander Ianneus.

Andrew Criddle

[Giuseppe]

He doesn't use the plural to describe the group of people who witnessed the presumed miracle. He uses the plural to describe the people who have been punished.

the Celsus' assumption is that such group were the 800 Pharisees crucified by Alexander Janneus, since in the Gospels there is none trace of a such group.

Celsus thought Jesus was born during the reign of Herod Antipas. Celsus did not think that Jesus was one of the victims of Alexander Ianneus.

see my answer to GDon.

[maryhelena]

George Wells.

As I have said, my concern in this book is with the
gospels rather than with the early epistles. But the
significance of the enormous difference in what is said of
Jesus in these two sets of documents should not pass
unnoticed; and if in fact two different personages are being
synthesized in the gospels, that in itself puts in question
substantial features of what is recorded in them. Paul may
well have thought of his “Christ crucified” as one of the
victims of earlier rulers of the region. Josephus tells that
Antiochus Epiphanes, king of Syria in the second century
B.C., and the Hasmonean ruler Alexander Jannaeus, of the
first century B.C., both caused living Jews to be crucified in
Jerusalem (Antiquities of the Jews, 12:255–56; 13:380). He
expressly notes that in these cases this punishment was not
inflicted only after execution, as it often was. Both periods of
persecution are alluded to in Jewish religious literature (for
instance in the Dead Sea Scrolls), and Jannaeus’s crucifixion
of eight hundred Pharisees left a strong impression on the
Jewish world. Paul’s environment, then, would have known
that pious Jews had earlier been crucified, although dates
and circumstances would have been known by many only
vaguely, if at all.
George Albert Wells: Cutting Jesus Down To Size.

Crucifixion in the time of the Hasmoneans......way to go Giuseppe....maybe the Pilate story is just a flashback.....an idea sometimes raised in regard to the John the Baptist story in Josephus being a flashback to the gospel dating.....something like that... or even a misplaced story about Hyrancus...