http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
Ianneus crucified 800 Pharisees.
They are "those individuals who have been punished along with you".
Surely "what credible witness beheld this appearance" refers to those who witnessed the bird descend? In which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:Giuseppe wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:59 amWhen you were bathing, says the Jew, beside John, you say that what had the appearance of a bird from the air alighted upon you. And then this same Jew of his, continuing his interrogations, asks, What credible witness beheld this appearance? Or who heard a voice from heaven declaring you to be the Son of God? What proof is there of it, save your own assertion, and the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you?
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
Ianneus crucified 800 Pharisees.
They are "those individuals who have been punished along with you".
which cannot explain why Celsus uses the plural to describe the group of the person who witnessed the presumed miracle:GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:32 pmIn which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:
He doesn't use the plural to describe the group of people who witnessed the presumed miracle. He uses the plural to describe the people who have been punished.Giuseppe wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:18 pmwhich cannot explain why Celsus uses the plural to describe the group of the person who witnessed the presumed miracle:GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:32 pmIn which case Celsus is referring to John the Baptist, probably using the Gospel of John:the statement of another of those individuals who have been punished along with you
The Toledot Yeshu has it's Yeshu figure born under Jannaeus but his death, execution, is under Queen Helene. An online version of the Toledot Yeshu makes no mention of Alexander Jannaeus being involved in the execution, crucifixion, of the Yeshu figure.
Celsus thought Jesus was born during the reign of Herod Antipas. Celsus did not think that Jesus was one of the victims of Alexander Ianneus.After these matters this Jew of Celsus, instead of the Magi mentioned in the Gospel, says that Chaldeans are spoken of by Jesus as having been induced to come to him at his birth, and to worship him while yet an infant as a God, and to have made this known to Herod the tetrarch; and that the latter sent and slew all the infants that had been born about the same time, thinking that in this way he would ensure his death among the others; and that he was led to do this through fear that, if Jesus lived to a sufficient age, he would obtain the throne.
the Celsus' assumption is that such group were the 800 Pharisees crucified by Alexander Janneus, since in the Gospels there is none trace of a such group.GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:23 pm He doesn't use the plural to describe the group of people who witnessed the presumed miracle. He uses the plural to describe the people who have been punished.
see my answer to GDon.andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:12 am Celsus thought Jesus was born during the reign of Herod Antipas. Celsus did not think that Jesus was one of the victims of Alexander Ianneus.