Was Paul Marcion (in part, at least)?

[MrMacSon]

Could some, much, most or even all the accounts of Paul be accounts about Marcion?

or mostly about a Marcionite?

The shipping expeditions, etc,?
The references to other teachings may be references to subsequent orthodox teachers?

Even Peter and James (& John) - who Paul disses - may represent orthodox competition (who got left in the Pauline epistles with downplayed & sidelined references to any disputes)

[Secret Alias]

Yes I think so. I think Paul was Mark and somehow the name "Marcion" is derived from Mark perhaps owing to it being a diminutive. But hard to prove.

[MrMacSon]

Yes I think so. I think Paul was Mark and somehow the name "Marcion" is derived from Mark perhaps owing to it being a diminutive. But hard to prove.

Cheers.
I have had the Markion = Mark thing in mind for a while. And the idea that Markion priority vs Mark priority might well be a false dichotomy for this reason, and obscuring that obvious idea, ie. that the gospel attributed to Mark arose in the Markionite community.

rpgprice's propsal that the gospel "of Mark's" Jesus is based on Paul is interesting in such a context.

[rgprice]

I don't know about Paul "being" Marcion. But really its hard to say much about any of this. I mean its not even clear if Marcion was a real person.

I'm quite confident that the "Gospel of Mark" was originally much longer and included material that is now found in Acts 16-28. What I haven't been able to figure out is why Marcion's Gospel didn't include this material.

[MrMacSon]

I don't know about Paul "being" Marcion. But really it's hard to say much about any of this. I mean it's not even clear if Marcion was a real person.

Sure (it's speculative).
But one could also make the claim that Paul was not a real person: Paul, Marcion, and most of the figures in the Pauline epistles could just be literary characters: sockpuppets and straw figures - strawmen - put up to be selectively torn down or kept up.

I'm quite confident that the "Gospel of Mark" was originally much longer and included material that is now found in Acts 16-28. What I haven't been able to figure out is why Marcion's Gospel didn't include this material.

Proposal: because the Marcionites didn't think they needed it? Because they already had it in their [Marcionite] version of Mark?

[Peter Kirby]

I'm quite confident that the "Gospel of Mark" was originally much longer and included material that is now found in Acts 16-28.

Which verses (or material)?

[rgprice]

I'm quite confident that the "Gospel of Mark" was originally much longer and included material that is now found in Acts 16-28.

Which verses (or material)?

A little bit of stuff prior to Acts 16, primarily, the description of Paul's persecutions and then his vision of Jesus. Then the first person passages in Acts 16-28, along with the trial.

[Sinouhe]

Could some, much, most or even all the accounts of Paul be accounts about Marcion?

or mostly about a Marcionite?

The shipping expeditions, etc,?
The references to other teachings may be references to subsequent orthodox teachers?

Even Peter and James (& John) - who Paul disses - may represent orthodox competition (who got left in the Pauline epistles with downplayed & sidelined references to any disputes)

The Pauline epistles are very well rooted in Second Temple Judaism. I really don't think Marcion had such a thorough knowledge of the Jewish beliefs of this period. And even less that he shared those beliefs.

[Secret Alias]

Paul's core beliefs are alien to Judaism. The first question you have to ask is whether the texts of Paul, like the gospel (which is also Paul), were corrupted. As they were corrupted by an orthodox redactor it is necessary to divide statements into core and non-essential. All citations of Jewish scripture are non-essential. Your claims are off to a bad start already. Marcion was Paul. They are indistinguishable if not for the corruption of his writings, the Gospel most notably. With the successful corruption of Paul's writings your defense is made much easier and my task much harder. But clearly "my gospel" and no surviving gospel of Paul is a problem.

[Secret Alias]

Sometimes the bad guys win (and all the other stuff from Kevin Spacey's speech in Swimming With Sharks).