Was Paul Marcion (in part, at least)?

[Sinouhe]

Paul's core beliefs are alien to Judaism.

Which ones ? And which judaism ?

[DCHindley]

One of the other threads here, about the unique POV of Michael Conley, Peter K provided Wayback links to several essays by him that he used to post on his web site.

One of them speaks of Peter, Paul and Ignatius, as inventions by 2nd century church fathers who were intent on undermining the Roman empire with the intention of eventually replacing it.

Peter, Paul & Ignatius were either invented in 2nd century and placed in past periods of history as relayed by Josephus, or they were shadows of figures really active in 2nd Century CE, again projected back in history. Yes, Paul could be based on Marcion in this way of looking at things. Like USSR state government, the real string pullers were not always obvious in the propaganda output.

These figures were created/refashioned to establish the moral authority of a Bishop led Christianity as a better form of government than what the Romans could provide. Basically, they were providing social services, educational, spiritual, food, etc., to achieve that goal. Killing with kindness.

Conley's idea of historical revisionism was "out there," for sure, but this resonates with things noted by spin & others like Jax (in those days) that the stories about Paul might refer to 2nd century CE events, and scholars who propose that the magician Simon depicted in the Pseudo-Clementine literature was really depicting a historical or mythical Peter or Paul who the PC writers/editors disagreed with.

DCH

[Secret Alias]

Any Judaism. The destruction and disappearance of Jewish halakhah is however surprisingly never a feature of Jewish sects.

[Sinouhe]

Any Judaism. The destruction and disappearance of the Jewish halakhah is however surprisingly never a feature of Jewish sects.

The Pharisees themselves didn't ask pagans to circumcise or follow kosher customs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

The pauline epistles were intented for the gentiles.

[Secret Alias]

Not the same thing as wanting judaism to disappear.

[Secret Alias]

It's like eating meat to vegetarianism. Or like wanting a teammate to die and being a team player.

[Sinouhe]

Not the same thing as wanting judaism to disappear.

Paul wrote for the gentiles.

[Secret Alias]

No. That's what the orthodox say. Doesn't make any sense. The Marcionites said he wrote for the proselytes which makes sense.

[Sinouhe]

No.

That’s what i read in the Pauline epistles.
But well, another maniac marcionite prioricist. Will not waste my time.

[Secret Alias]

Yeah. If you think that all our surviving texts survive by ancient scanning technology verbatim. Sure.