Irenaeus Says the Carpocratians Referred to Jesus as a "Naked Man" (Nude Hominem)

[Secret Alias]

Rursus autem ‘qui nude tantum hominem eum dicunt ex Joseph generatum, perseverantes in servitute pristinae inobedientiae moriuntur; nondum commixti Verbo Dei Patris, neque per Filium percipientes libertatem, quemadmodum ipse ait: Filius vos manumiserit, vere liberi eritis. Ignorantes autem eum, qui ex Virgine est Emmanuel, privantur munere ejus, quod est vita aeterna: non recipientes autem Verbum incorruptionis, perseverant in carne mortali, et sunt debitores mortis, antidotum vitae non accipientes. Ad quos Verbum ait, suum munus gratiae narrans: (AH 3, 19, 1)

https://ia801303.us.archive.org/4/items ... enuoft.pdf

"They also hold that Jesus was the son of Joseph, and was just like other men, with the exception that he differed from them in this respect, that inasmuch as his soul was stedfast and pure, he perfectly remembered those things which he had witnessed within the sphere of the unbegotten God."

[Peter Kirby]

https://lsj.gr/wiki/nudus

nūdus: a, um, adj. for nugdus; root nag-, nig-, to make bare; Sanscr. nagna, naked; cf. Germ. nackt; Eng. naked,
I naked, bare, unclothed, uncovered, exposed.
I Lit.
A In gen.: membra nuda dabant terrae, Lucr. 5, 970 Lachm. N. cr. (not nudabant): tamquam nudus nuces legeret, in ventrem abstulisse, Cic. de Or. 2, 66, 265: nudus membra Pyracmon, Verg. A. 8, 425: nuda pedem, Ov. M. 7, 183: capite nudo, bareheaded, Sall. J. 94, 1: pedibus nudis, Hor. S. 1, 8, 24: costae nudae tegmine, Sil. 5, 449.—Esp., without the toga, in one's tunic: nudus ara, sere nudus, Verg. G. 1, 299; Petr. 92; Aur. Vict. Vir. Illustr. 17; cf. Drak. ad Liv. 3, 26, 9.—Unarmed, unprotected: in maximo metu nudum et caecum corpus ad hostes vortere, his defenceless back, Sall. J. 107, 1; Liv. 5, 45, 3.—Prov.: vestimenta detrahere nudo, i. e. to get something out of one who has nothing, or to draw blood from a stone, Plaut. As. 1, 1, 79.—Of things: silex nuda, not covered with turf, Verg. E. 1, 15: ensis, id. A. 12, 306: sedit humo nudā, Ov. M. 4, 261: et quodcumque jacet nudā tellure cadaver, on the bare ground, unburied, Luc. 6, 550; so of unburied bodies, id. 8, 434; Stat. Th. 8, 73: nudum nemus, leafless, Sen. Herc. Oet. 281.—
(b) With gen.: loca nuda gignentium, bare of vegetation, Sall. J. 79, 6: nudus Arboris Othrys, Ov. M. 12, 512. —
B In partic.
1 Stripped, spoiled, vacant, void, deprived, or destitute of, without.
(a) With abl.: urbs nuda praesidio, Cic. Att. 7, 13, 1: praesidiis, Liv. 29, 4, 7: nudus agris, nudus nummis, Hor. S. 2, 3, 184: nudum remigio latus, id. C. 1, 14, 4; Sil. 16, 46.—
(b) With ab: Messana ab his rebus sane vacua atque nuda est, Cic. Verr. 2, 4, 2, § 3.—
(g) With gen.: mors famae nuda, Sil. 4, 608.—
(d) Absol.: heri quod homines quattuor In soporem conlocāstis nudos, Plaut. Am. 1, 1, 147: partem istam subselliorum nudam atque inanem reliquerunt, Cic. Cat. 1, 7, 16.—
2 Poor, needy, destitute, forlorn: quem tu semper nudum esse voluisti, Cic. Fl. 21, 51: senecta, Ov. H. 9, 154: senectus, Juv. 7, 35: quis tam nudus, ut, etc., id. 5, 163: sine amicis, sine hospitibus, plane nudum esse ac desertum, Cic. Verr. 2, 4, 66, § 148.—
II Transf.
A
1 In gen., bare, mere, pure, simple, sole, alone, only: nuda ista si ponas, judicari qualia sint non facile possim, Cic. Par. 3, 2, 24: ira Caesaris, Ov. Tr. 3, 11, 17: locorum nuda nomina, Plin. 3, praef. § 2: virtus nudo homine contenta est, Sen. Ben. 3, 18, 2: nuda rerum cognitio, Plin. Ep. 5, 8, 4: nuda virtus, Petr. 88: nudā manu captare fontem, i. e. without a cup, Sen. Hippol. alt. 519.—So freq. in jurid. Lat.: nudo animo adipisci quidem possessionem non possumus: retinere tamen nudo animo possumus, Paul. Sent. 5, tit. 2: etiam nudus consensus sufficit obligationi, Dig. 44, 7, 51; Gai. Inst. 3, 154.—
2 Esp., in phrases.
(a) Nudum pactum, a bare agreement, i. e. a contract without consideration: ex nudo enim pacto inter cives Romanos actio non nascitur, Paul. Sent. 2, 14, 1.—
(b) Nudum jus, an unexecuted right: qui nudum jus Quiritium in servo habet, is potestatem habere non intellegitur, Gai. Inst. 1, 54; 3, 166.—
B In partic.
1 Simple, unadorned: Commentarii (Caesaris) nudi sunt, recti et venusti, omni ornatu orationis tamquam veste detractā, Cic. Brut. 75, 262: brevitas nuda atque inornata, id. de Or. 2, 84, 341: quoniam dicendi facultas non debeat esse jejuna atque nuda, id. ib. 1, 50, 218: nuda et velut incompta oratio, Quint. 8, 6, 41; cf. id. 2, 4, 3; Ov. A. A. 3, 747: sedit humo nudā, nudis incompta capillis, Ov. M. 4, 261.—
2 Undisguised, unadorned, not veiled or obscured: veritas, Hor. C. 1, 24, 7: nudissima veritas, Cael. Aur. Chron. 1, 5, 176: simplex ac nuda veritas, Lact. 3, 1, 3: nuda verba, unveiled, i. e. obscene words, Plin. Ep. 4, 14, 4.—Hence, adv.: nūdē, nakedly, simply (post-class.): aliquid tradere breviter ac nude, Lact. 3, 1, 11.

https://lsj.gr/wiki/tantus

...
C Neutr. absol.
1 tantum, so much, so many: habere tantum molestiae quantum gloriae...ut tantum nobis, quantum ipsi superesse posset, remitteret, Cic. Rep. 1, 4, 7: decutio argenti tantum, quantum mihi lubet, Plaut. Ep. 2, 3, 4: iis adposuit tantum, quod satis esset, nullo adparatu, Cic. Tusc. 5, 32, 91: tantum complectitur, quod satis sit modicae palaestrae, id. Leg. 2, 3, 6: eo indito cumini fricti tantum, quod oleat, Cato, R. R. 156, 3 (cf.: tantum quod, s. v. tantum, adv. B. 2. b.): Ch. Coactus reddidit ducentos et mille Philippum. Ni. Tantum debuit, Plaut. Bacch. 2, 3, 38: nec tantum Karthago habuisset opum, Cic. Rep. Fragm. ap. Non. p. 526 (1, 48, 3 B. and K.): cum tantum belli in manibus esset, Liv. 4, 57, 1: sed quid hic tantum hominum incedunt? Plaut. Poen. 3, 3, 5: tantum hostium intra muros est, Liv. 3, 17, 4 et saep.: sexies tantum, quam quantum satum sit, Cic. Verr. 2, 3, 43, § 102; cf.: etiamsi alterum tantum perdundum est, perdam, etc., Plaut. Ep. 3, 4, 81 (v. alter): tantum ... dum, Liv. 27, 42, 12; cf.: tantum modo ... dum, Sall. J. 53, 3: tantum abest, ut, etc. (v. absum). —
b In colloquial lang.: tantum est, that is all, nothing more, etc.: vos rogat, ut, etc. Tantum est. Valete, Plaut. Trin. prol. 22; so id. Cas. prol. 87: Lo. Numquid amplius? Ly. Tantum est, id. Merc. 2, 2, 12; Ter. Eun. 5, 5, 26; id. Hec. 5, 3, 15.—
...
B (Acc. to tantus, II.; and therefore, prop., only so much, so little; hence) Only, alone, merely, but: tantum monet, quantum intellegit, only so much, Cic. Tusc. 2, 19, 44: tantum in latitudinem patebat, quantum loci acies instructa occupare poterat, Caes. B. G. 2, 8: quod haec tantum, quantum sensu movetur...se accommodat, etc., Cic. Off. 1, 4, 11: Socratem tantum de vitā et de moribus solitum esse quaerere, id. Rep. 1, 10, 16: nomen tantum virtutis usurpas, id. Par. 2, 17: dixit tantum: nihil ostendit, nihil protulit, id. Fl. 15, 34: notus mihi nomine tantum, Hor. S. 1, 9, 3: apte dicere non elocutionis tantum genere constat, sed, etc., Quint. 11, 1, 7; so, non tantum ... sed, id. 9, 3, 28: nec tantum ... sed (etiam), id. 3, 8, 33; 9, 3, 78; 11, 2, 5.—So with unus (mostly post-Aug.; once in Cic.): excepit unum tantum: scire se nihil se scire, nihil amplius, Cic. Ac. 2, 23, 74: unum flumen tantum intererat, Caes. B. C. 3, 19: unum defuisse tantum superbiae, Liv. 6, 16, 5; 21, 50, 6; 34, 9, 5; Just. 8, 5, 5; Cels. 5, 28, 14; Tac. A. 15, 1; Plin. 9, 35, 58, § 120.—
...

One possible way to render it:

Again, however, those who say that he was born barely [nude] as a mere man [tantum hominem] from Joseph, persevering in the servitude of former disobedience, are dying, not yet mingled with the Word of God the Father, nor perceiving freedom through the Son, just as he himself says: "If the Son sets you free, you will truly be free." (Against Heresies 3.19.1)

ANF translation:

But again, those who assert that He was simply [nude] a mere man [tantum hominem], begotten by Joseph, remaining in the bondage of the old disobedience, are in a state of death having been not as yet joined to the Word of God the Father, nor receiving liberty through the Son, as He does Himself declare: "If the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."(6)

I don't have Unger's more recent translation of book 3 of Adv. Haer.

[Secret Alias]

The argument unfolds as follows. First a discussion of the Valentinians:

But(1) there are some who say that Jesus was merely a receptacle of Christ, upon whom the Christ, as a dove, descended from above, and that when He had declared the unnameable Father He entered into the Pleroma in an incomprehensible and invisible manner: for that He was not comprehended, not only by men, but not even by those powers and virtues which are in heaven, and that Jesus was the Son, but that(2) Christ was the Father, and the Father of Christ, God; while others say that He merely suffered in outward appearance, being naturally impassible. The Valentinians, again, maintain that the dispensational Jesus was the same who passed through Mary, upon whom that Saviour from the more exalted [region] descended, who was also termed Pan,(3) because He possessed the names (vocabula) of all those who had produced Him; but that [this latter] shared with Him, the dispensational one, His power and His name; so that by His means death was abolished, but the Father was made known by that Saviour who had descended from above, whom they do also allege to be Himself the receptacle of Christ and of the entire Pleroma; confessing, indeed, in tongue one Christ Jesus, but being divided in [actual] opinion: for, as I have already observed, it is the practice of these men to say that there was one Christ, who was produced by Monogenes, for the confirmation of the Pleroma; but that another, the Saviour, was sent [forth] for the glorification of the Father; and yet another, the dispensational one, and whom they represent as having suffered, who also bore [in himself] Christ, that Saviour who returned into the Pleroma. I judge it necessary therefore to take into account the entire mind of the apostles regarding our Lord Jesus Christ, and to show that not only did they never hold any such opinions regarding Him; but, still further, that they announced through the Holy Spirit, that those who should teach such doctrines were agents of Satan, sent forth for the purpose of overturning the faith of some, and drawing them away from life.

2. That John knew the one and the same Word of God, and that He was the only begotten, and that He became incarnate for our salvation, Jesus Christ our Lord, I have sufficiently proved from the word of John himself.

[rgprice]

I'm still constantly blow away by the depth of the argumentation over writings. Every argument about the nature of Jesus that is known to exist is purely about parsing the details of various writings, often either by assuming the complete truth of a given writing or the complete falsehood of a given writing.

Its just flabbergasting that these people were basing their whole concept of live and salvation and how the world works and the future of humanity, on some made up stories. But again, this wasn't unique to Christians. The writings of the Sibyls, Orpheus and other supposed prophets were treated much the same way.

[Secret Alias]

I've noticed that "naked" in ancient languages (Greek, Latin) has a different context than it does for us. They used the term generally in a less sexualize way. That was one of the reasons I never bought into the homosexual inference from the Letter to Theodore. It tends to just mean "bare" like without stuff rather than "ready for sex."

[Peter Kirby]

Fragments (Clement of Alexandria)

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0211.htm

II.— Nicetas Bishop of Heraclea.
From His Catena.

I.— Job i. 21.

But Job's words may be more elegantly understood of evil and sin thus: Naked was formed from the earth at the beginning, as if from a mother's womb: naked to the earth shall I also depart; naked, not of possessions, for that were a trivial and common thing, but of evil and sin, and of the unsightly shape which follows those who have led bad lives. Obviously, all of us human beings are born naked, and again are buried naked, swathed only in grave-clothes. For God has provided for us another life, and made the present life the way for the course which leads to it; appointing the supplies derived from what we possess merely as provisions for the way; and on our quitting this way, the wealth, consisting of the things which we possessed, journeys no farther with us. For not a single thing that we possess is properly our own: of one possession alone, that is godliness, are we properly owners. Of this, death, when it overtakes us, will not rob us; but from all else it will eject us, though against our will. For it is for the support of life that we all have received what we possess; and after enjoying merely the use of it, each one departs, obtaining from life a brief remembrance. For this is the end of all prosperity; this is the conclusion of the good things of this life. Well, then, does the infant, on opening its eyes, after issuing from the womb, immediately begin with crying, not with laughter. For it weeps, as if bewailing life, at whose hands from the outset it tastes of deadly gifts. For immediately on being born its hands and feet are swaddled; and swathed in bonds it takes the breast. O introduction to life, precursor of death! The child has but just entered on life, and straightway there is put upon it the raiment of the dead: for nature reminds those that are born of their end. Wherefore also the child, on being born, wails, as if crying plaintively to its mother. Why, O mother, did you bring me forth to this life, in which prolongation of life is progress to death? Why have you brought me into this troubled world, in which, on being born, swaddling bands are my first experience? Why have you delivered me to such a life as this, in which both a pitiable youth wastes away before old age, and old age is shunned as under the doom of death? Dreadful, O mother, is the course of life, which has death as the goal of the runner. Bitter is the road of life we travel, with the grave as the wayfarer's inn. Perilous the sea of life we sail; for it has Hades as a pirate to attack us. Man alone is born in all respects naked, without a weapon or clothing born with him; not as being inferior to the other animals, but that nakedness and your bringing nothing with you may produce thought; and that thought may bring out dexterity, expel sloth, introduce the arts for the supply of our needs, and beget variety of contrivances. For, naked, man is full of contrivances, being pricked on by his necessity, as by a goad, how to escape rains, how to elude cold, how to fence off blows, how to till the earth, how to terrify wild beasts, how to subdue the more powerful of them. Wetted with rain, he contrived a roof; having suffered from cold, he invented clothing; being struck, he constructed a breastplate; bleeding his hands with the thorns in tilling the ground, he availed himself of the help of tools; in his naked state liable to become a prey to wild beasts, he discovered from his fear an art which frightened what frightened him. Nakedness begot one accomplishment after another; so that even his nakedness was a gift and a master-favour. Accordingly, Job also being made naked of wealth, possessions, of the blessing of children, of a numerous offspring, and having lost everything in a short time, uttered this grateful exclamation: Naked came I out of the womb, naked also shall I depart there;— to God, that is, and to that blessed lot and rest.

[Peter Kirby]

"Naked came I out of the womb, naked also shall I depart there;— to God, that is, and to that blessed lot and rest."

A magical amulet showing Jesus crucified depicts him nude.

https://www.academia.edu/1787622/The_Crucifixion

Magical Amulet with the Crucifixion
Eastern Mediterranean (Syria?), late 2nd – 3rd  century
Bloodstone (mottled green and red jasper)
...
Jesus is portrayed as a nude, bearded man with long hair, his arms stretched out beneath the horizontal bar (patibulum) of the T-shaped cross and attached to it by two short strips around his wrists. His elbows and hands fall loosely as a result. Jesus’s upper body is upright against the vertical shaft of the cross, his head turned sharply to the left. The lat, strictly frontal presentation, with the erect carriage of the head and torso, is comparable to the crucified figure in the Palatine graffito (“The Crucifixion,” fig. 2), which must be roughly contemporary with this amulet. Jesus’s legs are shown in profile, bent at the knee and hanging open loosely, as though he is seated on a bar or peg. The starkness of this position, emphasizing Jesus’s nudity, is wholly antithetical to the triumphal symbolism of the crucified Christ seen in subsequent representations in Christian art. The nudity is not used in accordance with the Greco-Roman concept of nakedness as a means to denote divinity nor is it a strictly narrative device, referring to the historical process of crucifixion. Here it may be regarded as affirming Jesus’s spiritual power, witnessed in the fact that he overcame the brutality of the cross and thereby defeated evil powers.
...
—Felicity Harley and Jeffrey Spier

Also a 4th century gem.

https://www.academia.edu/1788713/The_Co ... _Antiquity

...
This is most notable in the rendering of the knees, the demarcation of the waist and abdomen in the torso, along with the shaping of the shoulders and the neckline. The sensitivity shown in the articulation of these physical features makes it clear that although not explicit, the figure is also unambiguously nude. This fact is underscored by the carver’s very careful attempt to clothe the 12 male figures represented half the size of Jesus and shown processing toward him, six on either side.
...

[Secret Alias]

I once had a theory about nudity being an important theme running throughout the lost ur-gospel.

[Secret Alias]

Also Peter add to your Xfiles the French word Chrétien.

[Peter Kirby]

The notion of Logos being envisaged as a ‘stark-naked’ one (γυμνὸς) is a recurring motif in Origen: it suggests the Logos not only as incorporeal but also as not being involved with, or engaging in, generating the material reality.200 On this, Philo influenced him.201 Two of the most faithful followers of Origen imbibed this trope moderately,202 but Cyril of Alexandria was obsessed with the metaphor and could not have enough of it.203 Subsequently, Maximus Confessor (who knew what Origen’s Theory of logoi was about)204 spoke not only of the ‘stark-naked Logos’, but also of the ‘stark-naked logoi’,205 meaning the incorporeal causes that give rise to all aspects of reality. The participants of the council of Ephesus employed the expression ‘stark-naked Logos’ (γυ- μνὸς Λόγος) only because Cyril had used the expression, but they had no in- kling of the fact that the Christian source of it was Origen.206 So did those who took part in a sixth-century synod,207 and the irony was that both of those assemblies treated Origen as a damned heretic while unconsciously using his legacy – a usual sixth-century phenomenon, anyway.208

From Origen: New Fragments of the Commentary on Matthew, pp. lxiii - lxiv:

201 Philo, De Opificio Mundi, 24: εἰ δέ τις ἐθελήσειε γυμνοτέροις χρήσασθαι τοῖς ὀνόμασιν, οὐδὲν ἂν ἕτερον εἴποι τὸν νοητὸν κόσμον εἶναι ἢ θεοῦ λόγον ἤδη κοσμοποιοῦντος. Quod Deus Sit Immutabilis, 83: οὐ γάρ ἐστιν ὁ λόγος αὐτῷ γεγονὼς ἀέρος πλῆξις ἀναμιγνύμενος ἄλλῳ τὸ παράπαν οὐδενί, ἀλλὰ ἀσώματός τε καὶ γυμνός.
202 Gregory Thaumaturgus, In Origenem Oratio Panegyrica, 15: γυμνὸς καὶ ἀσκεπὴς ὁ θεῖος εἰσίῃ λόγος. Gregory of Nyssa, De Deitate Filii et Spiritus Sancti, PG.46.564.50-53 (quoted also by Theodoret, Eranistes, p. 105): Κατέβη τοίνυν καὶ ἐφάνη οὐ γυμνὸς ὁ Λόγος, ἀλλὰ σὰρξ γενόμενος. Much later, Anastasius of Sinai, Sermo ii in Constitutionem Hominis Secundum Imaginem Dei, 3 (τοῦ γυμνοῦ θεοῦ λόγου); cf. Sermo i in Constitutionem Hominis Secundum Imaginem Dei, 1 (τῆς γυμνῆς θεότητος). John of Damascus, De Fide Contra Nestorianos, 19.
203 Cyril of Alexandria, In Joannem, v. 1, pp. 257; 277; 283; 489; Responsiones ad Tiberium Diaconum Sociosque Suos, pp.591-592; De Sancta Trinitate Dialogi, pp.516; De Incarnatione Unigeniti, 705; Quod Unus Sit Christus, pp. 748; 755; 764; 772; Epistulae Paschales, PG.77.568.38-39; Expositio in Psalmos, PG.69.1040.28; Commentarius in Isaiam Prophetam, PG.70.1045.1; Commentarii in Lucam, PG.72.509.41-42; Thesaurus De Sancta Consubstantiali Trinitate, PG.75.429.33-34.
204 Maximus was aware of, and inspired by, Origen’s theory of creation almost as much as Gregory of Nyssa was. The difference was that Gregory elaborated on Origen’s theory and expanded it by using philosophical exposition which we do not see in Origen’s extant works, although what Gregory said was neither new nor different. On the other hand, Maximus abode by Origen’s terminology.
205 Maximus Confessor, Quaestiones ad Thalassium, 25; 27: γυμνοὺς θεάσασθαι τοὺς λόγους τῶν αἰσθητῶν.
206 ACO, Concilium Universale Ephesenum Anno 431, v. 1.1.1, pp. 64; 66; v. 1.1.4, p. 56; v. 1.1.5, pp. 52; 59; 70; 85; v. 1.1.6, pp. 47; 63; v. 1.1.7, p. 58.
207 ACO, Synodus Constantinopolitana et Hierosolymitana Anno 536, v. 3, pp. 7; 217.
208 RCR, ‘The sixth-century Origenism’, pp. 259-321.

There's enough material there for some kind of paper on the theme.

Now I also wonder if the "Fragment (Clement of Alexandria)" quoted above might instead be Origen.