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Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:58 am
by maryhelena
Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:56 am
maryhelena wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:25 am
What slogans have I been posting for years ? I'm curious about what specific 'slogans' you found objectionable ?
You employ the word "history" as slogan that magically supports whatever you want to say, but you don't do any history.
I don't do any history? Maybe check my posts over the last 10 years.
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:32 am
by davidmartin
maryhelena wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:58 am
I don't do any history? Maybe check my posts over the last 10 years.
he's yanking your chain.. imagine if you were the moderator of a forum. you'd do the same, don't worry about it
my advice is to do the Indiana Jones thing, I mean if you feel you have a gun and he's just got a sword you can just shoot him, right?
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:36 am
by maryhelena
davidmartin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:32 am
maryhelena wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:58 am
I don't do any history? Maybe check my posts over the last 10 years.
he's yanking your chain.. imagine if you were the moderator of a forum. you'd do the same, don't worry about it
my advice is to do the Indiana Jones thing, I mean if you feel you have a gun and he's just got a sword you can just shoot him, right?
Lovely - thanks for the laugh....
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:37 am
by maryhelena
Good Friday in action today. Theology having a field day.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 ... ood-friday
San Fernando (Philippines) (AFP) – Catholic zealots in the Philippines re-enacting the last moments of Jesus Christ were nailed to wooden crosses while others whipped themselves bloody in extreme displays of religious devotion on Good Friday
As spectators filmed on their mobile phones, three-inch nails were driven into their palms, and then the crosses hoisted upright.
Horrific picture in the article - not for the faint of heart. Christian theology at it's most anti-humanitarian core.
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:29 am
by dbz
maryhelena wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:07 pm
Christianity is a theological understanding of the past. It has no historical evidence for its gospel Jesus figure.
Modern Christianity must always reckon with the possibility of having to abandon the historical figure of
Jesus … he should never be considered its foundation.
—Albert Schweitzer
| Schweitzer 1913, p. 512. "Das moderne Christentum muss von vornherein und immer mit der Möglichkeit einer eventuellen Preisgabe der Geschichtlichkeit Jesu rechnen." |
- ecce _homo.png (1002.31 KiB) Viewed 834 times
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:33 am
by maryhelena
dbz wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:29 am
maryhelena wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:07 pm
Christianity is a theological understanding of the past. It has no historical evidence for its gospel Jesus figure.
Modern Christianity must always reckon with the possibility of having to abandon the historical figure of
Jesus … he should never be considered its foundation.
—Albert Schweitzer
| Schweitzer 1913, p. 512. "Das moderne Christentum muss von vornherein und immer mit der Möglichkeit einer eventuellen Preisgabe der Geschichtlichkeit Jesu rechnen." |
ecce _homo.png
Great quote.
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:36 am
by allegoria
maryhelena wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:37 am
Good Friday in action today. Theology having a field day.
Are you sure you understand what theology is? All the mainstream (and original) theologians do not believe that a person should literally carry a cross to fulfill Christ’s metaphorical demand in Matthew 16:24. When we interpret this passage as having a non-literal and metaphorical or symbolic meaning, we are doing theology. Theologians are aided by the study of first century culture and so on, but it’s still the realm of theology.
The meaning of the Passion is very complex. I’d recommend listening to Bach’s Kommt, ihr Töchter, helft mir klagen while reading the text in English. That gives you a good idea on what the Passion means.
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:12 am
by maryhelena
allegoria wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:36 am
maryhelena wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:37 am
Good Friday in action today. Theology having a field day.
Are you sure you understand what theology is? All the mainstream (and original) theologians do not believe that a person should literally carry a cross to fulfill Christ’s metaphorical demand in Matthew 16:24. When we interpret this passage as having a non-literal and metaphorical or symbolic meaning, we are doing theology. Theologians are aided by the study of first century culture and so on, but it’s still the realm of theology.
The meaning of the Passion is very complex. I’d recommend listening to Bach’s Kommt, ihr Töchter, helft mir klagen while reading the text in English. That gives you a good idea on what the Passion means.
I really don't need a lecture on the theology of Calvery's Cross. I find attempts to whitewash it's anti humanitarian reality disturbing. Look at that old man in that linked picture - tell him Jesus does not really want his followers to be nailed to a cross.... and what would he reply? Being nailed to a cross is his theology, theology interpreted from the Jesus story. If Jesus suffered for his sins then he will suffer alongside Jesus. So, one ends up in a debate.... my theology is better than your theology......
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:27 am
by davidmartin
isn't this the difference between subjective and objective reality?
like, for example, there are wars on-going right now where people are murdering each other. at some point won't people think that the metaphorical view is just an excuse to bypass what is condemned objectively? how is one view superior to another when the metaphorical meaning doesn't result in the outcomes the metaphor promises?
if the metaphorical meaning was not interpreted so broadly as to excuse anything then the objective manifestations wouldn't need to highlight the inconsistency and wouldn't occur. what matters is whether some guy is having his guts blown out in a war
Re: History trumps Theology
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:51 am
by maryhelena
davidmartin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 6:27 am
isn't this the difference between subjective and objective reality?
like, for example, there are wars on-going right now where people are murdering each other. at some point won't people think that the metaphorical view is just an excuse to bypass what is condemned objectively? how is one view superior to another when the metaphorical meaning doesn't result in the outcomes the metaphor promises?
if the metaphorical meaning was not interpreted so broadly as to excuse anything then the objective manifestations wouldn't need to highlight the inconsistency and wouldn't occur. what matters is whether some guy is having his guts blown out in a war
Objective reality.. Indeed. In this case, historical reality should be allowed to put a break on speculative cross theology. That would mean that the claimed, the assumed, historical gospel Jesus, must go.... must go in order for the anti humanitarian, flesh and blood, cross theology be discredited for the monstrosity it is.
