History trumps Theology

[Peter Kirby]

Why do you even bother to post if you cannot hope to convince anyone because you have no kind of basis for the theory whatsoever?

[maryhelena]

There is no evidence for any gospel Jesus theory or interpretation. No evidence... Zero.

At this point, you would logically just become skeptical of the historicity of Jesus.

Instead, you have picked up the arguments of these skeptics parasitically to suggest that a completely unevidenced theory can be introduced into the vacuum of the supposed lack of any evidence for historicity being argued for by them.

Picked up arguments parasitically from skeptics?

Goodness me... I really don't know how to respond to that charge.

While we all learn from those who came before us, we also, intellectually, have our own thinking ability.

For what it's worth, I did not become a historical Jesus skeptic by reading anybodies book. I did it all on my own. The first book I then reached for was a history book. I followed up with The Myth of God Incarnate edited by John Hick... and as the say... I was on my way. I have no Greek language but I do have the gospel story the Greek scholars have provided.

One slowly drops things like virgin birth, resurrection, miracles... leading to no historical evidence for an itinerant carpenter preacher.... Simple really... don't know what all the fuss is about. Gospel Jesus is an idea, a literary figure.

If some people think differently that's their right. However, space in a free society allows heretics to have a voice. And that, at the end of the day, is what Christianity is all about, change, rebirth, resurrection. Intellectual life, death, and rebirth of our intellect. Ideas can enlighten us or they can enslave us. The choice is ours to make.

[maryhelena]

Why do you even bother to post if you cannot hope to convince anyone because you have no kind of basis for the theory whatsoever?

Nobody on this forum has evidence for a historical gospel Jesus. People offer theories, interpretations, opinions.

What theory of mine are you referring to?

[maryhelena]

If there's an intellectual graveyard, then there is also a history of it, and all theology is also part of history.

So I invite maryhelena to sing a Duet with me entitled, "Who were the Hasmoneans?"

CW

Wish I could but I can't hold a tune..while an Irish rebel song might do justice to the Hasmonean rebels....perhaps it would not be welcome....

[Peter Kirby]

If we found that every single idea whatsoever was of equal merit, that would be a very sad day indeed.

But, no, I don't buy it.

And if I did, I wouldn't see much point in pure speculation either.

[maryhelena]

If we found that every single idea whatsoever was of equal merit, that would be a very sad day indeed.

But, no, I don't buy it.

And if I did, I wouldn't see much point in pure speculation either.

There are ideas I don't buy. We all judge ideas as best we can. Indeed, a very sad day were we to judge all ideas to be of equal merit.

[dbz]

Nobody on this forum has evidence for a historical gospel Jesus. People offer theories, interpretations, opinions.

[T]he Christ is understood [as] the Jesus of the New Testament. . . . He is the Christ myth.

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--Remsburg, John Eleazer (1909). The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidences of His Existence. p. 9.

The real question of the historicity of Jesus is not merely whether there ever was a Jesus among the numerous claimants of a Messiahship in Judea, but whether we are to recognise the historical character of this Jesus in the Gospels, and whether he is to be regarded as the founder of Christianity.

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--Kalthoff, Albert (1907). "Was There An Historical Jesus?". The Rise of Christianity. Translated by Joseph McCabe. London: Watts. p. 28.

• Evidence for a historical gospel Jesus is "Evidence" per se, when it is in the context of competing hypotheses.

[E]vidence has to make [the] alternative hypotheses less likely, that the only way to do this is to collect evidence that’s unlikely to be observed on alternative hypotheses, and that reliable procedures are by definition those capable of doing that.

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--Carrier (6 March 2019). "Hypothesis: Only Those Who Don't Really Understand Bayesianism Are Against It". Richard Carrier Blogs.

[maryhelena]

That history trumps theology is surely a fundamental approach to intellectual deliberations.

I'm really astounded that the idea, a slogan, could generate such heat.

[Peter Kirby]

That history trumps theology is surely a fundamental approach to intellectual deliberations.

What does the slogan mean?

[maryhelena]

That history trumps theology is surely a fundamental approach to intellectual deliberations.

What does the slogan mean?

It means what it says. History and theology are not equal methods for the task of understanding the past.