According to my analysis of this epistle (posted several years ago) to the Philadelphians:
The subject of “archives” has come up before on this board. I think G has already cited it.8.2) And I exhort you to do nothing out of strife, but according to the doctrine of Christ.
When I heard some saying that, “If I do not find it in the public records (τοῖς ἀρχείοις εὕρω), I will not believe the Gospel;”
On my saying to them, “It is written” (ὅτι γέγραπται), [in the NT for sure, maybe also in Greek translation of Judean sacred texts] they answered me, “That remains to be proved” (ὅτι πρόκειται) [presumably from the archives].
But my public record (Ἐμοὶ δὲ ἀρχεῖά), is Jesus Christ, [presumably as found in the NT or other scriptures), (are) the authentic public records (τὰ ἄθικτα ἀρχεῖα) [i.e., scripture trumps public records], (relaying authentic information about) His cross, and death, and resurrection, and the faith which is by Him,
Through which (faith) I desire, through your prayers, to be justified.
There were no “official” government archives for documents that might corroborate the gospel story, that is unless they were recorded in private diaries of the officials involved. These personal diaries were not public property, but the official’s own property, just in case he might be accused of doing something illegal and needed it to support his version of events.
Contemporary writers might have had access to some of them by private arrangement, such as Josephus being granted access to at least copies of Vespasian's & Titus' own diaries of the events, when he wrote his account of the Judean War as a client of his patrons V & T. Whether that kind of information transfer regarding the events related in the NT ever really occurred, much less got into Christian or even pagan hands, is another thing that needs to be proved. Irenaeus and Tertullian, maybe Justin, all thought that such information just HAD to be out there, just waiting to be found, and if looked for, would assuredly prove that the NT gospels factually depicted things. Oohh-Kay.
The only thing that seriously challenged the Christian account of their origins, was the Acta Pilate (supposedly extracts from the diary of Pontius Pilate, and even Jesus’ own diary!). That would be sometimes between 305-312 CE, as these alleged documents were published by flatterers of co-emperor Maximin of Asia Minor.
What they based them on is anyone’s guess. Eusebius says they were fabricated whole cloth, citing chronological differences with the Gospels. That sort of thing can be reversed and the implication would then be that these are the “true” events (occurring ca 19-20 CE) that Christians spun into their version of things where Jesus was “really” a peace-nik sage. This would date this to a period much later than usually ascribed to Ignatius, though.
So maybe Ignatius’ interlocuters were just making excuses, as no one was really able to find real records of those events.
DCH
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:36 amNo, I mean this (even if your quoted passage is considered by Earl Doherty evidence that well more than mere docetists are in view by Ignatius):
When I heard some saying, If I do not find [mention of Jesus] in the archives, I will not believe the Gospel; on my saying to them, It is written [in the Old Testament], they answered me, That remains to be proved. But to me Jesus Christ is the archive. His cross, and death, and resurrection, and the faith which is by Him, are undefiled monuments of antiquity; by which I desire, through your prayers, to be justified.
(Epistle to the Philadelphians)
