Meaning of παραδοθῆναι?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
rgprice
Posts: 2109
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:57 pm

Re: Meaning of παραδοθῆναι?

Post by rgprice »

1 Timothy also talks about "delivering up" someone to Satan.

18 This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies made earlier about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19 having faith and a good conscience. By rejecting conscience, certain persons have suffered shipwreck in the faith; 20 among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have turned over [παρέδωκα] to Satan, so that they may be taught not to blaspheme.

The beginning of Mark again, from YLT:

7 and he proclaimed, saying, `He doth come -- who is mightier than I -- after me, of whom I am not worthy -- having stooped down -- to loose the latchet of his sandals;

8 I indeed did baptize you with water, but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.'

9 And it came to pass in those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John at the Jordan;
10 and immediately coming up from the water, he saw the heavens dividing, and the Spirit as a dove coming down upon him;
11 and a voice came out of the heavens, `Thou art My Son -- the Beloved, in whom I did delight.'

12 And immediately doth the Spirit put him forth to the wilderness,
13 and he was there in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Adversary, and he was with the beasts, and the messengers were ministering to him.

14 And after the delivering up of John, Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of the reign of God,
15 and saying -- `Fulfilled hath been the time, and the reign of God hath come nigh, reform ye, and believe in the good news.'

It's difficult to make sense of this, because clearly what we have has been altered from the original text, so its hard to really understand what we're working with.

But notice this: After the baptism, we read only that "he" was sent into the wilderness, and "he" was tempted by Satan, and "he" was with the beasts. So here is it is unclear who "he" is. Of course we assume that its Jesus, because that's how Matthew and Luke (and John) present it and its how all of the translations of Mark frame it.

The Hermeneia on Mark states early manuscripts read "to him" while later manuscripts read "upon him", "probably under the influence of one or more of the parallels in Matthew." It goes on, "Ehrman argues that Mark's preposition εἰς was changed to ἐπ’ because the earlier reading was used by some "Gnostics" to support their claim that a divine being had entered into Jesus at the time of his baptism and thus separating "Jesus" from "the Christ"".

What I suspect is this. John says, "he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit". So right here John is stating that Jesus will be the one who performs a baptism on others and that this baptism will be a baptism with the Holy Spirit.

But then we get v9, and I suspect that v9 is an entire modification of the original narrative. And that in the original narrative it was Jesus that baptized John, not the other way around. But if that change is made, then v11 also has to be changed from "Thou art My Son" to "This is my Son", with the Spirit talking to John. The interesting this about this is that this aligns with the voice at the Transfiguration as well:

Mark 9:7 And there came a cloud overshadowing them, and there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son -- the Beloved, hear ye him;'

So here is what we get:

8 I indeed did baptize you with water, but he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.'

9 And it came to pass in those days, Jesus came and baptized John at the Jordan;
10 and immediately coming up from the water, he saw the heavens dividing, and the Spirit as a dove coming down to him;
11 and a voice came out of the heavens, `This is My Son -- the Beloved, in whom I delight.'

12 And immediately doth the Spirit put him forth to the wilderness,
13 and he was there in the wilderness forty days, being tempted by the Adversary, and he was with the beasts, and the messengers were ministering to him.

14 And after the delivering up of John, Jesus came to Galilee, proclaiming the good news of the reign of God,

The thing about this is that now v8 properly sets the expectation of what happens next, and v14 properly concludes the events of v12 & 13.

In the traditional reading John tells us that Jesus is going to baptize with the Holy Spirit, but then we never see Jesus do any baptizing. Then Jesus is driven into the wildering a tempted by Satan, but we hear nothing about what comes of it, its just an event with no purpose, and then we hear that John was taken, with no clue as to why.

Of course when we read this we gloss over all of these things because we've already read the story from Matthew so we just fill in the details ourselves. And by now we all know that we're going to be hold about the arrest of John in Mark 6 but a reader of the story for the first time would be baffled by this opening. John tells us that Jesus is going to do some baptizing, but then he gets baptized instead, and what happened to John, why is he taken away all the sudden?
lsayre
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:39 pm

Re: Meaning of παραδοθῆναι?

Post by lsayre »

John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. And passing alongside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew the brother of Simon casting a net into the sea, for they were fishermen. And immediately they left their nets and followed him. And going on a little farther, he saw James the son of Zebedee and John his brother, who were in their boat mending the nets. And immediately he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired servants and followed him.

And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching. And they were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as the scribes. And immediately there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit. And he cried out saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” And the unclean spirit, convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they questioned among themselves, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He commands even the unclean spirits, and they obey him.” And at once his fame spread everywhere throughout all the surrounding region of Galilee.

And immediately he left the synagogue and entered the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. Now Simon’s mother-in-law lay ill with a fever, and immediately they told him about her. And he came and took her by the hand and lifted her up, and the fever left her, and she began to serve them.

That evening at sundown they brought to him all who were sick or oppressed by demons. And the whole city was gathered together at the door. And he healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons. And he would not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

And rising very early in the morning, while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place, and there he prayed. And Simon and those who were with him searched for him, and they found him and said to him, “Everyone is looking for you.” And he said to them, “Let us go on to the next towns, that I may preach there also.” And he went throughout all Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and casting out demons.

And a leper came to him, imploring him, and kneeling said to him, “If you will, you can make me clean.” Moved with pity, he stretched out his hand and touched him and said to him, “I will; be clean.” And immediately the leprosy left him, and he was made clean. And he sternly charged him and sent him away at once, and said to him, “See that you say nothing to anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, for a proof to them.” Etc...
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