The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

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Secret Alias
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The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by Secret Alias »

She caught him by his (Joseph's) cloak and said, “Come to bed with me!” But he left his cloak in her hand and ran out of the house. [Genesis 39:12]
Clement sees a lot of naked Joseph in the Bible. Naked when his brother's stripped him of his cloak and again in this scene:
As is right, then, he never prefers the pleasant to the useful; not even if a beautiful woman were to entice him, when overtaken by circumstances, by wantonly urging him: since Joseph's master's wife was not able to seduce him from his stedfastness; but as she violently held his coat, divested himself of it, -- becoming bare of sin, but clothed with seemliness of character. For if the eyes of the master -- the Egyptian, I mean -- saw not Joseph, yet those of the Almighty looked on. [Stromata 7]
This is an example of the encratic Gnostic. But earlier Joseph's "stripping" by his brothers there is a similar notion of the mystery rite from Secret Mark:
Also in the case of Joseph: the brothers having envied this young man, who by his knowledge was possessed of uncommon foresight, stripped off the coat of many colours, and took and threw him into a pit (the pit was empty, it had no water), rejecting the good man's varied knowledge, springing from his love of instruction; or, in the exercise of the bare faith, which is according to the law, they threw him into the pit empty of water, selling him into Egypt, which was destitute of the divine word. And the pit was destitute of knowledge; into which being thrown and stript of his knowledge, he that had become unconsciously wise, stript of knowledge, seemed like his brethren. Otherwise interpreted, the coat of many colours is lust, which takes its way into a yawning pit ... Conceal it, then, from those who are unfit to receive the depth of knowledge, and so cover the pit. The owner of the pit, then, the Gnostic, shall himself be punished, incurring the blame of the others stumbling, and of being overwhelmed by the greatness of the word, he himself being of small capacity; or transferring the worker into the region of speculation, and on that account dislodging him from off-hand faith.'[Stromata 5]


There is some kind of mystery involving nakedness and - as we saw earlier - uttering "passwords" or tolls to the angelic gatekeepers in Clement's Alexandrian community.
nightshadetwine
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by nightshadetwine »

Secret Alias wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:36 pm
She caught him by his (Joseph's) cloak and said, “Come to bed with me!” But he left his cloak in her hand and ran out of the house. [Genesis 39:12]
Clement sees a lot of naked Joseph in the Bible. Naked when his brother's stripped him of his cloak and again in this scene:
As is right, then, he never prefers the pleasant to the useful; not even if a beautiful woman were to entice him, when overtaken by circumstances, by wantonly urging him: since Joseph's master's wife was not able to seduce him from his stedfastness; but as she violently held his coat, divested himself of it, -- becoming bare of sin, but clothed with seemliness of character. For if the eyes of the master -- the Egyptian, I mean -- saw not Joseph, yet those of the Almighty looked on. [Stromata 7]
This is an example of the encratic Gnostic. But earlier Joseph's "stripping" by his brothers there is a similar notion of the mystery rite from Secret Mark:
Also in the case of Joseph: the brothers having envied this young man, who by his knowledge was possessed of uncommon foresight, stripped off the coat of many colours, and took and threw him into a pit (the pit was empty, it had no water), rejecting the good man's varied knowledge, springing from his love of instruction; or, in the exercise of the bare faith, which is according to the law, they threw him into the pit empty of water, selling him into Egypt, which was destitute of the divine word. And the pit was destitute of knowledge; into which being thrown and stript of his knowledge, he that had become unconsciously wise, stript of knowledge, seemed like his brethren. Otherwise interpreted, the coat of many colours is lust, which takes its way into a yawning pit ... Conceal it, then, from those who are unfit to receive the depth of knowledge, and so cover the pit. The owner of the pit, then, the Gnostic, shall himself be punished, incurring the blame of the others stumbling, and of being overwhelmed by the greatness of the word, he himself being of small capacity; or transferring the worker into the region of speculation, and on that account dislodging him from off-hand faith.'[Stromata 5]


There is some kind of mystery involving nakedness and - as we saw earlier - uttering "passwords" or tolls to the angelic gatekeepers in Clement's Alexandrian community.
Being stripped of your clothing or being nude is usually associated with an initiatory rebirth - obviously because we are born naked. It also has to do with the "stripping" off of the old self to become a new reborn person. As I've mentioned before, a lot of initiation rituals seem to show possible Egyptian influence.

That's why I like the theory that the naked youth in Mark is being initiated through Jesus's death and resurrection. The boy is described as wearing a linen cloth that is used as burial clothing just like the linen wrappings of a mummy.

Mummies & Magic: The Funerary Arts of Ancient Egypt (the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, 1988):
The underlying idea was that life can only exist, be renewed, and be regained through death. Not only human beings, but also such gods as Re and Osiris were mortal: They had life in the sense that they had died and arisen from the dead. The renewal, that mysterious process that Kristensen called life from death, came about outside the created world in the unfathomable depth and darkness of the primeval waters (Nun) that surround this world. It is in that mysterious space that the deceased could live again. One sun-hymn reads: "How beautiful is thy shining forth in the horizon. We are in renewal of life. We have entered into Nun He has renovated (us) to one who is young for the first time. The (one) has been stripped off, the other put on."

The last sentence has been interpreted to mean, “The old man is cast off and the new man is put on." It may also call to mind the mummy-bandages that are thrown off in the decisive moment of resurrection and the white garments that the glorified dead wear in depictions of the Underworld... Egyptian funerary mythology seems largely to be derived from the mythology and cult of the sun-god Re. In the earliest funerary texts, the Pyramid Texts, funerary mythology centered on Osiris, the god who died and arose from the dead...

Mummy-bindings had to be removed at the moment of resurrection. Mummification prepared the body for resurrection in the Underworld and protected it in its journey to that mysterious space. Mummy-bindings were both protective attire for the "space traveler" and, at the same time, the bonds of death. They may be called the bonds of Seth, because Seth was the god of death, who brought death into the world by murdering Osiris. The thoroughness with which the Egyptians are wrapped makes understandable such special prayers as the one written on a coffin in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, directing the goddess Isis to free the mummy from its wrappings at the moment of resurrection: “Ho my mother Isis, come that you may remove the bindings which are on me".
Lord of the Cosmos: Mithras, Paul, and the gospel of Mark (A&C Black, 2006):
To be a disciple entails entering the “mystery of the kingdom of God” (4:11), which involves the same process of humiliation and exaltation that Jesus must undergo, as the three passion predictions make clear (8:31—32; 9:31-32; 10:32- 34). Mark links discipleship to baptism with the pericopes about Bartimaeus (10:46—52), the naked young man (14:51—52), and the young man at the tomb (16:5).

Although all three Synoptics relate a version of this story, only Mark includes the detail of Bartimaeus casting off the cloak in 10:50. This detail has puzzled some exegetes. One interpretation holds that the blind beggar would not be wearing the garment; rather, he would have it spread on the ground in front of him in order to collect the alms people would drop. His action of tossing it aside, therefore, would be more dramatic and decisive. Another tries to connect it to the youth who runs away naked at the arrest. The symbolism of Bartimaeus’s cloak goes deeper than either of these suggestions. “Cloak” occurs five times in Mark. With the exception of references to touching Jesus’ cloak (5:27; 6:56), the use of the term “cloak” signifies an old way of life that should be abandoned. In Mark 2:21, Jesus advises that mending an old cloak with a new patch is counterproductive. Likewise, turning back to retrieve one’s cloak could bring death (13:16). Cloaks wrap and protect, but they also hinder sight and hamper movement. Bartimaeus casts off his cloak for precisely that reason; it represents the old way of seeing reality and responding to it. By throwing off his cloak, Bartimaeus makes a radical break with his past. On this score, throwing off the cloak has resonance with the baptismal liturgy...

The being at the tomb is a young man (16:5). The only other citation of this term in the Markan Gospel is at the arrest, where Mark includes a puzzling verse describing the naked young man who flees the scene (14:51-52). One interpretation of the scene is that this individual is the same person at the tomb now. Moreover, he has a link extending back to Bartimaeus, whose name never appears again in the Markan Gospel.

That Bartimaeus, the unquestioning disciple, casts off his cloak (10:50) before coming to Jesus underscores the parallel this pericope has with the young man running naked in 14:51-52. Having the same youth sitting at the tomb makes him a model of the newly baptized, someone who has been “immersed in the death of Jesus in order to be clothed in his life” and made a witness of the resurrection. In this understanding, there is a gradual but perceptible progression of the connection. In 10:50 Bartimaeus throws off his cloak, and in 14:51-52 the young man flees without a linen cloth. At his burial, Jesus is wrapped in a linen cloth (15:46), while at the tomb announcing Jesus’ resurrection to the women is a young man dressed in a long robe (16:5). The reprise of the linen cloth at the burial of Jesus further extends the interpretation; it is a death pall. At the tomb, the young man is clothed in a long robe. This garb is seen as a baptismal dress, thereby making the young man represent a catechumen who has been baptized into Jesus’ death. The fact that the Pauline writings provide similar baptismal imagery sustains the interpretation.

In Paul, we read such descriptions as the baptized as having “clothed” themselves “with Christ” (Gal 3:27), being “buried with [Christ] in baptism” to be raised with him “through faith in the power of God” (Col 2:12), throwing off “the works of darkness” and putting on “the armor of light” (Rom 13:11—14), and even putting away “the old self” of a “former way of life” (Eph 4:22—24). Although it is difficult if not impossible to prove that these passages are describing the earliest practices associated with the baptismal rite, they do reflect the double image of a believer discarding an old way of living in favor of a new. In so doing, then, they support the understanding of baptism in the Markan passages in 10:46—52; 14:51-52; and 16:5.
"The Baptismal Raising of Lazarus: A New Interpretation of John 11", Bernhard Lang, Novum Testamentum 58 (2016):
Though well hidden, the theme of baptism informs the whole story of the raising of Lazarus (John 11). The note about Jesus’ sojourn at the very place where John the Baptist had previously been active (John 10:40-42) forms the introduction to the Lazarus story. Just as a musical clef dictates pitch, this passage announces the theme: baptism. Once readers are set on this track, they cannot miss the hidden point. Ritually, the person being baptised is pushed into the realm of death, so that he can emerge to a new life...

Unfortunately, our ancient sources on mystery religions tell us very little about how the “second birth” was ritually staged, for initiates were required to remain silent about it. Nevertheless, some hints found in ancient sources give an indication. The magic papyrus of Paris provides a good example. Around eleven o’clock in the morning and in the presence of the magician, the candidate is supposed to mount the roof of a house and spread out a piece of cloth. Naked he places himself upon it. His eyes are blindfolded, the entire body wrapped like a mummy... When this occurs, possibly in the form of a draught of air felt by the candidate, the latter stands up. He dons a white garment, burns incense and again utters a spell. The rites completed, he descends from the roof. Now he knows that he has acquired immortality. Similar rites and symbolic representations of death and resurrection can be found in all ancient mystery cults. “When the candidate of the mysteries of Isis applies for initiation, he chooses the ritual death in order to gain true life,” explains Reinhold Merkelbach. In fact, according to the ancients, each initiation ritual involves the death of the old and the birth of a new person; there are no exceptions...

The ritual culminates in the candidate’s resurrection (vii) or—to use Johannine vocabulary (John 3:3)—rebirth to a new life, initiated by the call to leave the tomb (or to rise). The call, no doubt spoken by a presbyter, is understood as being uttered by Christ: “Truly, truly, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live” (John 5:25, alluded to in 11:25). The hour of which Jesus speaks is the hour of baptism. After coming out of the tomb, Lazarus is freed from the linen strips with which his arms and feet were bound. This unbinding may actually echo an idea dear to the Egyptian culture and depicted on the lid of an ancient sarcophagus: the resurrected human person stands erect, with outstretched arms from which the strips dangle, with which the dead body had been wrapped. The Egyptians wrapped the body with strips of cloth just for the transition period or travel from this world to the other world; once the person has arrived in the next world, the wrapping was taken off. The resurrected Lazarus, one may assume, also belongs to a new world—that of the Christian community.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

I think in regards to the Judeo-Christian mystery interpretation, the gymno initiation rite is to return to a pre-fall state where Adam and Eve were naked in Eden. Also makes me think of Christians calling themselves athletes of Christ, since athletes performed naked in Greece.
rgprice
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by rgprice »

I address this one in Deciphering the Gospels. It fits the typical pattern of scenes constructed from scriptural references that talk about God's punishment of the Israelites.

Amos 2:
6 Thus says the Lord,
“For three transgressions of Israel and for four
I will not revoke its punishment,
Because they sell the righteous for money
And the needy for a pair of sandals.
7 “These who pant after the very dust of the earth on the head of the helpless
Also turn aside the way of the humble;
And a man and his father resort to the same girl
In order to profane My holy name.
8 “On garments taken as pledges they stretch out beside every altar,
And in the house of their God they drink the wine of those who have been fined.

9 “Yet it was I who destroyed the Amorite before them,
Though his height was like the height of cedars
And he was strong as the oaks;
I even destroyed his fruit above and his root below.
10 “It was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt,
And I led you in the wilderness forty years
That you might take possession of the land of the Amorite.
11 “Then I raised up some of your sons to be prophets
And some of your young men to be Nazirites.
Is this not so, O sons of Israel?” declares the Lord.
12 “But you made the Nazirites drink wine,
And you commanded the prophets saying, ‘You shall not prophesy!’

13 “Behold, I am weighted down beneath you
As a wagon is weighted down when filled with sheaves.
14 “Flight will perish from the swift,
And the stalwart will not strengthen his power,
Nor the mighty man save his life.
15 “He who grasps the bow will not stand his ground,
The swift of foot will not escape,
Nor will he who rides the horse save his life.
16 “Even the bravest among the warriors will flee naked in that day,” declares the Lord.


Mark 14:
10 Then Judas Iscariot, who was one of the twelve, went off to the chief priests in order to betray Him to them. 11 They were glad when they heard this, and promised to give him money. And he began seeking how to betray Him at an opportune time.

12 On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed, His disciples *said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?” 13 And He *sent two of His disciples and *said to them, “Go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him; 14 and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?”’ 15 And he himself will show you a large upper room furnished and ready; prepare for us there.” 16 The disciples went out and came to the city, and found it just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover.

17 When it was evening He *came with the twelve. 18 As they were reclining at the table and eating, Jesus said, “Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me—one who is eating with Me.” 19 They began to be grieved and to say to Him one by one, “Surely not I?” 20 And He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who dips with Me in the bowl. 21 For the Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is My body.” 23 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

26 After singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

27 And Jesus *said to them, “You will all fall away, because it is written, ‘I will strike down the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.’ 28 But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee.” 29 But Peter said to Him, “Even though all may fall away, yet I will not.” 30 And Jesus *said to him, “Truly I say to you, that this very night, before a rooster crows twice, you yourself will deny Me three times.” 31 But Peter kept saying insistently, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!” And they all were saying the same thing also.

32 They *came to a place named Gethsemane; and He *said to His disciples, “Sit here until I have prayed.” 33 And He *took with Him Peter and James and John, and began to be very distressed and troubled. 34 And He *said to them, “My soul is deeply grieved to the point of death; remain here and keep watch.” 35 And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass Him by. 36 And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.” 37 And He *came and *found them sleeping, and *said to Peter, “Simon, are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 Keep watching and praying that you may not come into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” 39 Again He went away and prayed, saying the same words. 40 And again He came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were very heavy; and they did not know what to answer Him. 41 And He *came the third time, and *said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? It is enough; the hour has come; behold, the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!”

43 Immediately while He was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, *came up accompanied by a crowd with swords and clubs, who were from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. 44 Now he who was betraying Him had given them a signal, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the one; seize Him and lead Him away under guard.” 45 After coming, Judas immediately went to Him, saying, “Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 46 They laid hands on Him and seized Him. 47 But one of those who stood by drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 48 And Jesus said to them, “Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me, as you would against a robber? 49 Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures.” 50 And they all left Him and fled.

51 A young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. 52 But he pulled free of the linen sheet and escaped naked.

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MrMacSon
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by MrMacSon »

rgprice wrote:
I address this in Deciphering the Gospels.
It fits the typical pattern of scenes constructed from scriptural references that talk about God's punishment of the Israelites.


Amos 2:

8 “On garments taken as pledges they stretch out beside every altar



10 “It was I who brought you up from the land of Egypt,
And I led you in the wilderness forty years
That you might take possession of the land of the Amorite.

11 “Then I raised up some of your sons to be prophets
And some of your young men to be Nazirites.
Is this not so, O sons of Israel?” declares the Lord.

12 “But you made the Nazirites drink wine,
And you commanded the prophets saying, ‘You shall not prophesy!’



14 “Flight will perish from the swift,
And the stalwart will not strengthen his power,
Nor the mighty man save his life.

15 “He who grasps the bow will not stand his ground,
The swift of foot will not escape,
Nor will he who rides the horse save his life.

16 “Even the bravest among the warriors will flee naked in that day,” declares the Lord.


One might wonder if a gospel writer or two might have reflected upon Amos 2 when contemplating the destruction of the Temple (or after the annihilation of Jerusalem by Hadrian; especially re Amos 2.10c: ie., no longer having "possession of the land of the Amorite")
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

???

"And Noah began to be a husbandman, and planted a vineyard: and he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness."
rgprice
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by rgprice »

I should add that in the LXX the last line of Amos 2 reads:
16 And the strong shall find no confidence in power: the naked shall flee away in that day, says the Lord.

So, it leaves out warriors.
rgprice
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by rgprice »

MrMacSon wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:28 pm One might wonder if a gospel writer or two might have reflected upon Amos 2 when contemplating the destruction of the Temple (or after the annihilation of Jerusalem by Hadrian; especially re Amos 2.10c: ie., no longer having "possession of the land of the Amorite")
Exactly. When you look at the scriptures used in Mark, like 90% of them have this theme. They are either to Elijah/Elisha, which is a story about the prelude to the destruction of the Israelite kingdoms and the temple, or they are to scriptures like this, which are about God's punishment of the Israelites because they have displeased him, so he's sending foreign armies to destroy them.
Last edited by rgprice on Mon Mar 18, 2024 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Secret Alias
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by Secret Alias »

I don't accept the idea that these minor prophets and lesser texts could have been the basis for a gospel narrative. Doesn't mean I am right. I am just skeptical. Joseph was iconic.
rgprice
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Re: The Source of Mark's Naked Youth Narrative?

Post by rgprice »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:40 am I don't accept the idea that these minor prophets and lesser texts could have been the basis for a gospel narrative. Doesn't mean I am right. I am just skeptical. Joseph was iconic.
The problem is its a pattern that shows up over and over and over again. Virtually every scene in Mark can be traced back to either 1 & 2 Kings (Elijah/Elisha), Psalms, or prophets, namely Isaiah, Hosea, Amos, Malachi, Jeremiah, or Ezekiel.

Its not like its a one off. Everyone knows that the crucifixion scene is based on Psalm 22. Essentially every other scene in the Gospel of Mark is constructed just like the crucifixion. And that's exactly what Justin and other proto-orthodox Christians were saying too. They were saying that everything Jesus did had been foretold, because they could see that every scene had parallels with the Jewish scriptures. This was the primary foundation of the orthodox claim to legitimacy. "Jesus was foretold by the Jewish prophets, and we can prove it by showing you how everything recorded about him in the Gospels was prefigured in the scriptures of the prophets."
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