(a) If historicism is true (and let's assume here that it is - I have no such presuppositions in favor of mythicism), then we should suppose that there were stories told about Jesus, often described as an oral tradition. The historical existence of Jesus is a simple explanation of a pre-existing tradition that provided pre-existing reader knowledge in Mark. It competes with a prior-gospel-before-Mark hypothesis in also being economical, in general but especially for those who regard the historicity of Jesus to be at all likely for some other reason.Steven Avery wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:25 pmPresumptions of reader knowledge in Mark.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:08 pm Please explain how Ben's thread presents "really clear arguments of Luke preceding Mark."
That reader knowledge is material in Luke's Gospel.
Ockham says the simplest explanation is the best, Luke was being read by readers now reading Mark.
Sure, there are other, complex possibilities, especially for those with presuppositions of late dating or mythicism.
(b) If "late" dating could be true (and I'm not assuming in this reply that it is), then this does nothing to indicate otherwise. A prior-gospel hypothesis is simply a prior-gospel hypothesis. It is compatible with later dates for both Mark and whatever gospel might have pre-existed Mark.
(c) Nothing you've said does anything to identify which gospel should be presupposed in this prior-gospel hypothesis. Do you have an additional argument to say that a prior gospel here could not, for example, be Matthew?
For me, the main issue that I have with what you're saying is the explanation offered if historicism is true and there was an oral tradition that developed prior to the writing of the gospel of Mark. So your comments regarding "especially for those with presuppositions of ... mythicism" seem especially inappropriate with regard to what I am saying in response to your claims.
You have not shown that Ben's thread presents "really clear arguments of Luke preceding Mark."
Why not just be more accurate about what Ben's thread actually does present? You can make your own, additional arguments.