A "Messianic" Use of Chrestos in Against Celsus

[Secret Alias]

Ἐπὶ μεγάλοις τετήρηται πράγμασι καὶ μεγίσταις μεταβολαῖς τῶν ἐπὶ γῆς ἀνατέλλειν τοὺς τοιούτους ἀστέρας, σημαίνοντας ἢ μεταστάσεις βασιλειῶν ἢ πολέμους ἢ ὅσα δύναται ἐν ἀνθρώποις συμβῆναι, σεῖσαι τὰ ἐπὶ γῆς δυνάμενα. Ἀνέγνωμεν δ' ἐν τῷ περὶ κομητῶν Χαιρήμονος τοῦ στωϊκοῦ συγγράμματι, τίνα τρόπον ἔσθ' ὅτε καὶ ἐπὶ χρηστοῖς ἐσομένοις κομῆται ἀνέτειλαν, καὶ ἐκτίθεται τὴν περὶ τούτων ἱστορίαν. Εἴπερ οὖν ἐπὶ βασιλείαις καιναῖς ἢ ἄλλοις μεγάλοις συμπ τώμασιν ἐπὶ γῆς ἀνατέλλει ὁ καλούμενος κομήτης ἤ τις τῶν παραπλησίων ἀστήρ, τί θαυμαστὸν ἐπὶ τῇ γενέσει τοῦ καινοτομεῖν μέλλοντος ἐν τῷ γένει τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ διδασκαλίαν ἐπεισάγειν οὐ μόνον Ἰουδαίοις ἀλλὰ καὶ Ἕλλησι πολλοῖς δὲ καὶ τοῖς βαρβάρων ἔθνεσιν ἀστέρα ἀνατεταλκέναι

In great and greatest affairs on earth, such stars rise, indicating changes in kingdoms, wars, or whatever may happen among humans, capable of shaking earthly powers. We have read in the work of the Stoic philosopher Chairemon regarding comets, how and under what circumstances comets have appeared even during the right [original translation: favorable] times, and he recounts the history of these phenomena. Therefore, if a comet, or any similar star, rises in conjunction with new kingdoms or other significant events on earth, what wonder will it bring upon the birth of an innovator in the human race, and introduce teaching not only to the Jews but also to many Greeks and even to the nations of barbarians?

Clearly Chrestos can mean "the right one" i.e. one who appears at the right time viz. the end times, times of conflagration.

[Secret Alias]

There is a consistent connection between "chrestos" and Jesus in the first books of Against Heresies which may suggest the original draft was written by someone other than Origen.

Ἦμεν γάρ ποτε καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀνόητοι, ἀπειθεῖς, πλανώμενοι, δουλεύοντες ἐπιθυμίαις καὶ ἡδοναῖς ποικίλαις, ἐν κακίᾳ καὶ φθόνῳ διάγοντες, στυγητοί, μισοῦντες ἀλλήλους· ὅτε δὲ ἡ χρηστότης καὶ ἡ φιλανθρωπία ἐπεφάνη τοῦ σωτῆρος ἡμῶν θεοῦ", "διὰ λουτροῦ παλιγγενεσίας καὶ ἀνακαινώσεως πνεύματος, οὗ ἐξέχεεν ἐφ' ἡμᾶς", τοιοίδε γεγόναμεν. "

And:

Καὶ ἔτι γε τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἐκστάσεις μὲν διανοίας ἀνθρώπων ἀφίστησι καὶ δαίμονας ἤδη δὲ καὶ νόσους, ἐμποιεῖ δὲ θαυμασίαν τινὰ πρᾳότητα καὶ καταστολὴν τοῦ ἤθους καὶ φιλανθρωπίαν καὶ χρηστότητα καὶ ἡμερότητα ἐν τοῖς μὴ διὰ τὰ βιωτικὰ ἤ τινας χρείας ἀνθρωπικὰς ὑποκριναμένοις ἀλλὰ παραδεξ

And fucking this:

Τοῦτο μὲν οὖν οὐ πάντας πείσει περὶ τῆς τοῦ Ἰούδα προαιρέσεως, ὅτι μετὰ τῆς φιλαργυρίας καὶ τῆς μοχθηρᾶς εἰς τὸ προδοῦναι τὸν διδάσκαλον προαιρέσεως εἶχέ τι ἀναμεμιγμένον ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ἀπὸ τῶν Ἰησοῦ λόγων αὐτῷ ἐγγεγενημένον, ἔμφασιν ἔχον λείμματος, ἵν' οὕτως ὀνομάσω, χρηστότητος; Γέγραπται γὰρ ὅτι "Ἰδὼν Ἰούδας ὁ παραδιδοὺς αὐτὸνὅτι κατεκρίθη, μεταμεληθεὶς ἔστρεψε τὰ τριάκοντα ἀργύρια τοῖς ἀρχιερεῦσι καὶ πρεσβυτέροις λέγων· [Judas ... had something mingled in his soul from the teachings of Jesus, having a kind of residue, let me call it kindness (χρηστότητος).]

This objection to Chrestos is SO FUCKING STUPID. It lays bare what the assault against Secret Mark was all about. These people have an inner sanctum they don't want defiled. The idea that Judas had some divine spirit inside of him called essentially "Chrestos" which guided his actions is so heretical.

[Secret Alias]

And then book 3:

He imagines, however, that we utter these exhortations for the conversion of sinners, because we are able to gain over no one who is χρηστὸν and righteous, and therefore open our gates to the most unholy and abandoned of men.

and a little later:

But when we consider that those discourses, which Celsus terms vulgar, are filled with power, as if they were spells, and see that they at once convert multitudes from a life of licentiousness to one of extreme regularity, and from a life of wickedness to (χρηστότερον translate: better), and from a state of cowardice or unmanliness to one of such high-toned courage as to lead men to despise even death through the piety which shows itself within them, why should we not justly admire the power which they contain? For the words of those who at the first assumed the office of (Christian) ambassadors, and who gave their labours to rear up the Churches of God — nay, their preaching also — were accompanied with a persuasive power, though not like that found among those who profess the philosophy of Plato, or of any other merely human philosopher, which possesses no other qualities than those of human nature.

Again from Celsus:

But if you will have us to meet the most ridiculous among the charges of Celsus, listen to him when he says: "Now God, being unknown among men, and deeming himself on that account to have less than his due, would desire to make himself known, and to make trial both of those who believe upon him and of those who do not, like those of mankind who have recently come into the possession of riches, and who make a display of their wealth; and thus they testify to an excessive but very mortal ambition on the part of God ... God does not desire to make himself known for his own sake (σωτηρίαν γνῶσιν ἡμῖν παρασχεῖν ἑαυτοῦ βούλεται), but because he wishes to bestow upon us the knowledge of himself for the sake of our salvation (ἵν' οἱ μὲν παραδεξάμενοι αὐτὴν χρηστοὶ γενόμενοι σωθῶσιν), in order that those who accept it may become virtuous and be saved, while those who do not accept may be shown to be wicked and be punished."

And again:

And accordingly he likens us to those who in the Bacchic mysteries introduce phantoms and objects of terror. With respect to the mysteries of Bacchus, whether there is any trustworthy account of them, or none that is such, let the Greeks tell, and let Celsus and his boon-companions listen. But we defend our own procedure, when we say that our object is to reform the human race, either by the threats of punishments which we are persuaded are necessary for the whole world, and which perhaps are not without use (οὐκ ἀχρήστους) to those who are to endure them; or by the promises made to those who have lived virtuous lives, and in which are contained the statements regarding the blessed termination which is to be found in the kingdom of God, reserved for those who are worthy of becoming His subjects.

And again:

Τὸ δὲ καταβεβηκὸς εἰς ἀνθρώπους "ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ" ὑπῆρχε καὶ διὰ φιλανθρωπίαν "ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν", ἵνα χωρηθῆναι ὑπ' ἀνθρώπων δυνηθῇ. Οὐ δή
που δ' ἐξ ἀγαθοῦ εἰς κακὸν γέγονεν αὐτῷ μεταβολή, "ἁμαρτίαν" γὰρ "οὐκ ἐποίησεν", οὐδ' ἐκ καλοῦ εἰς αἰσχρόν, οὐ γὰρ ἔγνω "ἁμαρτίαν", οὐδὲ ἐξ εὐδαιμονίας ἦλθεν εἰς κακοδαιμονίαν, ἀλλ' "ἑαυτὸν" μὲν "ἐταπείνωσεν" οὐδὲν δ' ἧττον μακάριος ἦν, καὶ ὅτε συμφερόντως τῷ γένει ἡμῶν ἑαυτὸν ἐταπείνου. Ἀλλ' οὐδὲ μεταβολή τις αὐτῷ γέγονεν ἐκ τοῦ ἀρίστου εἰς τὸ πονηρότατον· ποῦ γὰρ πονηρότατον τὸ χρηστὸν καὶ φιλάνθρωπον;

"But the descent to humanity 'in the form of God' was also due to philanthropy, as he 'emptied himself' so that he might be able to be received by humans. Yet, there was no change from good to evil for him; for he 'did not commit sin,' nor from beauty to ugliness, for he did not know sin, nor did he come from happiness to misery. Rather, he 'humbled himself' and was nonetheless blessed, even when he humbled himself in a manner suitable to our nature. But there was no change in him from the best to the worst. For where could goodness and philanthropy be considered the worst?"

[StephenGoranson]

SA, do you ever stop to think how many potentially-helpful posters your language may have chased away from this forum?

[robert j]

Clearly Chrestos can mean "the right one" i.e. one who appears at the right time viz. the end times, times of conflagration.

Yet indeed XS, of us still being without strength, according to the right time, died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6, Berean Literal Bible, except for the nomina sacra)

This verse confused ancient scribes resulting in several MSS variants, apparently centered around the temporal nature of ἔτι (still), and translators still struggle with that today. However, the “according to the right time, died for the ungodly” is consistent in the MSS.

[Secret Alias]

SG

At least I didn't contribute to the slandering of a dead man. My adversaries are all alive and can defend themselves. At least my actions cannot be attributed to resentment and cowardice (perhaps [anything can be argued] resentment but not resentment AND cowardice). I didn't wait until someone was unable to defend themselves to conduct my attacks.

[Secret Alias]

Without sounding too pretentious the battle at this forum is a timeless war between orthodoxy and freedom. I have gone through the files in the Swiss archives to get a sense of what I am who I am what I came from. Switzerland was a police state. Perhaps a benevolent police state. But a state nevertheless where everyone was watched. I get an idea of what earth I came from (the files are readily accessible just go to the Swiss archives Gundelfinger (my grandfathers stepfathers name and Sommerfeld my grandmother's maiden name). I also know my enemy. My enemy is self-satisfied "right belief." There are 6 million victims of "orthodoxy" in Germany. Only a handful had their names printed in the Deutsche Reichsanzeiger for capture and immediate execution. And he escaped. Escaped like the "white"



The enemy has always been the same. The players change. The dogmas are altered. But the war is always the same. This line from Irenaeus about the followers of Mark:

They maintain that Daniel also set forth the same thing when he begged of the angels explanations of the parables, as being himself ignorant of them. But the angel, hiding from him the great mystery of Bythus, said unto him, "Go thy way quickly, Daniel, for these sayings are closed up until those who have understanding do understand them, and those who are white be made white." Moreover, they vaunt themselves as being the white and the men of good understanding.

Kabbalists know who these "men of good understanding" are https://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/arti ... 461-maskil. It is rabbinic name for gnostics but it clearly goes back to the 2nd century. Wife is calling. Time to shop at Nordstroms. Getting her various Parisian outfits "because in France they don't wear athletic wear." 2000 years of war between your people and mine.

[StephenGoranson]

SA
The dead people you have marked as adversaries I won't attempt to list.
"...perhaps resentment" ?
Anyway, the question was whether you stop to think of potentially-helpful posters that your language may have chased away from here.

[Secret Alias]

As I said, you attack dead people, I challenge living people who espouse dead ideas. In combat there is always the notion of a "fair fight." There is honor. Picking on the dead the way you do is unfair and dishonorable. Death however is the great equalizer.

[Secret Alias]

Lost in all of this nonsense is my original point.

Ἐπὶ μεγάλοις τετήρηται πράγμασι καὶ μεγίσταις μεταβολαῖς τῶν ἐπὶ γῆς ἀνατέλλειν τοὺς τοιούτους ἀστέρας, σημαίνοντας ἢ μεταστάσεις βασιλειῶν ἢ πολέμους ἢ ὅσα δύναται ἐν ἀνθρώποις συμβῆναι, σεῖσαι τὰ ἐπὶ γῆς δυνάμενα. Ἀνέγνωμεν δ' ἐν τῷ περὶ κομητῶν Χαιρήμονος τοῦ στωϊκοῦ συγγράμματι, τίνα τρόπον ἔσθ' ὅτε καὶ ἐπὶ χρηστοῖς ἐσομένοις κομῆται ἀνέτειλαν, καὶ ἐκτίθεται τὴν περὶ τούτων ἱστορίαν. Εἴπερ οὖν ἐπὶ βασιλείαις καιναῖς ἢ ἄλλοις μεγάλοις συμπ τώμασιν ἐπὶ γῆς ἀνατέλλει ὁ καλούμενος κομήτης ἤ τις τῶν παραπλησίων ἀστήρ, τί θαυμαστὸν ἐπὶ τῇ γενέσει τοῦ καινοτομεῖν μέλλοντος ἐν τῷ γένει τῶν ἀνθρώπων καὶ διδασκαλίαν ἐπεισάγειν οὐ μόνον Ἰουδαίοις ἀλλὰ καὶ Ἕλλησι πολλοῖς δὲ καὶ τοῖς βαρβάρων ἔθνεσιν ἀστέρα ἀνατεταλκέναι

In great and greatest affairs on earth, such stars rise, indicating changes in kingdoms, wars, or whatever may happen among humans, capable of shaking earthly powers. We have read in the work of the Stoic philosopher Chairemon regarding comets, how and under what circumstances comets have appeared even during the right [original translation: favorable] times, and he recounts the history of these phenomena. Therefore, if a comet, or any similar star, rises in conjunction with new kingdoms or other significant events on earth, what wonder will it bring upon the birth of an innovator in the human race, and introduce teaching not only to the Jews but also to many Greeks and even to the nations of barbarians?
Clearly Chrestos can mean "the right one" i.e. one who appears at the right time viz. the end times, times of conflagration.

Clearly Chrestos can mean "the right one" i.e. one who appears at the right time viz. the end times, times of conflagration.