Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Joseph D. L.
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Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Not sure if anyone here has this book https://www.amazon.com/YHWHs-Divine-Ima ... 162837439X the author did an interview with Mythvision podcast a couple years ago which I recently rewatched, and with all the talk around the nomina sacra I wanted to put up a thought for consideration.

McClellan goes over how spirits and divine entities were immortalized on relics and alters by their names. One example is the Kuttamuwa stele:

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I am KTMW (Kuttamuwa), servant of Panamuwa, who commissioned for myself (this) stele while still living. I placed it in an eternal chamber and established a feast (at) this chamber: a bull for Hadad Qarpatalli, a ram for NGD/R ṢWD/RN, a ram for Šamš, a ram for Hadad of the Vineyards, a ram for Kubaba, and a ram for my “soul” (NBŠ) that (will be) in this stele. Henceforth, whoever of my sons or of the sons of anybody (else) should come into possession of this chamber, let him take from the best (produce) of this vine(yard) (as) a (presentation)-offering year by year. He is also to perform the slaughter (prescribed above) in (proximity to) my “soul” and is to apportion for me a leg-cut.

To this day we to this with gravestones as monuments to remember our loved ones who have passed as if the stone itself holds their spirits.

This was true for divinities. Etching the name of a particular god onto an idol would magically transform that idol into the god. This was not idol worship though because it was truly believed that the spirits of the god would use that statue as a vessel to commune with his followers.

But McClellan points out that this practice was also down with YHWH

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To Adonai and his Asherah

On the subject of objects and special plaques embodying the spirit of the gods, he singles out how the stone tablets of the Law bore the declaration אָֽנֹכִ֖י֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑֔יךָ, I am the LORD thy God, literally embodying the presence of YHWH within them.

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The traditional stone tablets of Moses, not too dissimilar from the Kuttamuwa stele

But these divine idols are of stone. What of other materials?

The closest analogue is the Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day which were personalized manuals given to the deceased to help with their journey through the after life. But as with their stone mortuary counterparts, these were believed to be living and breathing texts that contained a person's essence, the Ka, so they could read it while being dead in Ta-Amen.

So could this thinking have trickled down all the way to Christianity and the nomina sacra?

Immediately the Gospel of Mark opens with Ἀρχὴ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ/ΙΥΧΥΥΥΘΥ, The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Matthew, Luke and John pussyfoot around while Mark dives right into it almost like this was an original title for the text.

Keeping in mind the aforementioned practice of names embodying the divine presence in them, would it be a bridge too far to assume this with the Gospels? Gospel of Mark at the least? In short the Gospel itself was ΙΣ ΧΣ on earth and for all times.
rgprice
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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Well, for starters, I don't think the opening line is original. There are so many reasons to this that this is a later addition. For one, it is the only use "Jesus Christ" in the entire narrative. For another it gives away the main plot device of the whole narrative. As I've said before, it would be like titling the Empire Strikes Back, "Luke, Son of Vader" instead.

Rather, I think that the first line of Mark is a description given to the work by the person who revised the narrative from an original longer text. This is why the story ending at Mark 16:9 appears truncated. That wasn't actually where the story ended, but in fact the original story was actually much longer and goes on to narrative the revelation of Jesus to Paul.

This is why the person who made the copy of the story identified it as "the beginning of the story of Jesus Christ", because they were actually only copying out the beginning. And this person, in giving the story this title, gives away the big reveal of the original author.

Now why does Mark shy away from the name "Jesus Christ" or even "Jesus Chrestos"? Because that's the name used for the big reveal, when Jesus makes his appear to Paul. I'll be addressing this in another thread as well.

Be that as it may, there may still be something to this idea of the divine presence being in the nomina sacra. So far the best explanation I've heard is that ΙΣ with a bar over it is the original first nomina sacra, and it was written this was because it was to be understood as the number 18. IN Greek, numbers were written with a bar over them in manuscripts. ΙΣ equated to 18 in Jewish numerology and writing it with the bar over it signified that it was to be understood as teh name that means 18, which had all kinds of numerological significance.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

I must confess I know absolutely nothing regarding the nomina sacra. I don't read Greek and I don't have an interest in piecing together what abbreviations meant. It doesn't really help me.

Regarding the first line in Mark, well be that as it may I think that the original line had to run something similar to announcing that THIS IS THE BOOK OF JESUS, or maybe the title of the Gospel was something other than just Evangelion. John seems to run with a similar idea by having his opening comparable to Genesis 1. The thing is, and I've read through you reconstruction of the first chapter, in my opinion all references to Old Testament material are marginal notes and commentary added in to explain itself which a first printing of a Gospel probably wouldn't have, so the "this was done in fulfillment of..." lines are later. Marcion's Gospel is supposedly called Gospel of the Lord. That just sounds impossible to believe. And his Gospel opens with In the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judea, Jesus descended into Capernaum. Quick and to the point, but notice that Jesus is not the focusing point here, it's the year of the reigning emperor and governors, and Jesus comes onto the stage almost like a second thought, or almost as if he is speaking to people who already know of Jesus. If the Gospel is a revealed text I think the very first line have to be something a little less mundane and more grandiose. Mark's line may not be original but it may be a witness to what was.

Years ago I played with the idea that "Isu Chrestus" was in fact the Gospel itself, the very manuscript that the new covenant revealed to Paul was written on. With McClellan's work on objects bearing the names of divine figures embodying those very figures--also the angel who carries God's name--makes me think that, maybe I was more right at the time than wrong.
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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rgprice wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:04 am So far the best explanation I've heard is that ΙΣ with a bar over it is the original first nomina sacra, and it was written this was because it was to be understood as the number 18. IN Greek, numbers were written with a bar over them in manuscripts. ΙΣ equated to 18 in Jewish numerology
You're thinking of IH (iota eta), corresponding to an abbreviation by suspension, where iota is 10 and eta is 8, based on the standard Greek representation of numbers.
nightshadetwine
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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Joseph D. L. wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 6:34 am Not sure if anyone here has this book https://www.amazon.com/YHWHs-Divine-Ima ... 162837439X the author did an interview with Mythvision podcast a couple years ago which I recently rewatched, and with all the talk around the nomina sacra I wanted to put up a thought for consideration.
Glad to see you posting again. Your posts are some of the more interesting ones on this forum. If you haven't already, check out some of the posts I've made somewhat recently. You might find them interesting. Especially this one: viewtopic.php?p=160472#p160472
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

Post by Joseph D. L. »

nightshadetwine wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 12:32 pm

Glad to see you posting again. Your posts are some of the more interesting ones on this forum. If you haven't already, check out some of the posts I've made somewhat recently. You might find them interesting. Especially this one: viewtopic.php?p=160472#p160472
Thank you for your vote of confidence. I have been out of this game for a few years and am trying to get back into it. Your posts are always a fun read just by how much information you drop in them. If you're not Boswell himself you sure pack a similar punch. lol

I don't know what it is in modern biblical scholarship that refuses to drop this iron curtain between Christianity and pagan myths, especially with initiative rebirths. Not to be conspiratorial, but it has to be intentional, or a consequence of Christianity's hold over our minds.

Cheers mate :cheers:
nightshadetwine
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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Joseph D. L. wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:09 pm Thank you for your vote of confidence. I have been out of this game for a few years and am trying to get back into it. Your posts are always a fun read just by how much information you drop in them. If you're not Boswell himself you sure pack a similar punch. lol

I don't know what it is in modern biblical scholarship that refuses to drop this iron curtain between Christianity and pagan myths, especially with initiative rebirths. Not to be conspiratorial, but it has to be intentional, or a consequence of Christianity's hold over our minds.

Cheers mate :cheers:
I sometimes have to take breaks from this stuff too. It can get kind of discouraging when so many people, including NT scholars, constantly deny this stuff. There are too many Christians involved in NT scholarship so it makes it difficult. I have a collection of quotes by NT scholars actually pointing out the Christian bias in NT scholarship.

I'm actually not Boswell. I do get carried away with quotes though. I like to show that I'm not just pulling things out of my ass. Also, scholars can usually put things better than I can.

I'm working on a new post right now that goes even more into initiation and other themes that are found in the NT texts, the Greco-Roman novels such as "The Golden Ass" and "Chaereas and Callirhoe", and plays like "The Bacchae" and "Frogs". All of these texts contain a lot of the same themes. It becomes so obvious that the authors of the NT texts are influenced by other stories and are being creative writers. This new post will be like a collection of sources that anyone who is interested in the topic can add to.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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rgprice wrote: Be that as it may, there may still be something to this idea of the divine presence being in the nomina sacra. So far the best explanation I've heard is that ΙΣ with a bar over it is the original first nomina sacra ...
I'm pretty sure that the first nomina sacra were for Lord and God/Theos (or the like +/- other divine concepts; and XC/XS might have preceded ΙΣ/IH/IS/IC)
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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nightshadetwine wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:39 pm I'm working on a new post right now that goes even more into initiation and other themes that are found in the NT texts, the Greco-Roman novels such as "The Golden Ass" and "Chaereas and Callirhoe", and plays like "The Bacchae" and "Frogs". All of these texts contain a lot of the same themes. It becomes so obvious that the authors of the NT texts are influenced by other stories and are being creative writers. This new post will be like a collection of sources that anyone who is interested in the topic can add to.
That does sound interesting. Thank you for working on it.
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Re: Could the nomina sacra denote the presence of Jesus?

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MrMacSon wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:05 pm
rgprice wrote: Be that as it may, there may still be something to this idea of the divine presence being in the nomina sacra. So far the best explanation I've heard is that ΙΣ with a bar over it is the original first nomina sacra ...
I'm pretty sure that the first nomina sacra were for Lord and God/Theos (or the like +/- other divine concepts; and XC/XS might have preceded ΙΣ/IH/IS/IC)
Could be.

Also, Ben Smith provided examples of similar pre-Christian abbreviations from numismatic evidence:
Ben C. Smith wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:54 pm Sixth, Greek coinage bears similar abbreviations in this respect:

Greek Numismatic Dictionary:

ΑΓΩΝΟΘΕΤΗΣ, ΑΓΩ = Supervisor of the Games.
ΑΡXΙΕΡΕΥΣ, ΑΡX = High Priest.
ΑΥΤΟΚΡΑΤΩΡ, Α, ΑΥ, ΑΥΤ, ΑΥΤΟΚ = Emperor, Autocrat.
∆ΕΣΠΟΤΗΣ, ∆Ε, ∆ΕΣ, ∆ΕΣΠΟ, et cetera = Despot, Lord, Master.
ΕΘΝΑΡXΟΣ, ΕΘΝ = Ethnarch.
ΕΠΑΡXΟΣ, EP, EPA = Eparch, Prefect.
ΚΑΙΣΑΡ, Κ, ΚΑΙ, ΚΑΙΣ = Caesar.
ΠΑΤΗΡ ΠΑΤΡΙΑΣ, ΠΠ = Pater Patriae (Father of the Country).
ΣΕΒΑΣΤΟΣ, Σ, ΣΕΒ, ΣΕΒΑ = Augustus.
ΣΤΡΑΤHΓΟΣ, ΣΤΡ = General, Magistrate.

[Link.]

Notice that these abbreviations are suspensions. Notice also that three of our four nomina sacra (κύριος, Ἰησοῦς, and Χριστός) find nearly perfect analogies: κύριος is a synonym of δεσπότης, Ἰησοῦς a personal name like Καίσαρ (and therefore transliterated into Greek, not translated), and Χριστός is an honorific like Σεβαστός (and therefore translated into Greek, not transliterated).
But yes I am willing to credit that e.g. κύριος could have been abbreviated before Christian usage of the abbreviation (but I don't have a pre-Christian example to speak of), giving it a certain potential to be the earliest abbreviation of the four.
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