Who were those Freedmen?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Who were those Freedmen?

Post by billd89 »

"AJ XVIII 144-145: Agrippa’s ‘noble spirit’ is said to have caused ‘lavishness in giving’ (the latter meant spending money on luxuries and giving bribes to the emperor’s freedmen)"
AJ 18.6.1 Now as Agrippa was by nature magnanimous and generous in the presents he made, while his mother was alive this inclination of his mind did not appear; that he might be able to avoid her anger for such his extravagance. But when Bernice was dead, and he was left to his own conduct, he spent a great deal extravagantly in his daily way of living; and a great deal in the immoderate presents he made; and those chiefly among Caesar’s freed-men; in order to gain their assistance. Insomuch that he was in a little time reduced to poverty; and could not live at Rome any longer.

Who were the "freedmen" and what did Agrippa gain?
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3445
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Who were those Freedmen?

Post by DCHindley »

billd89 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pm "AJ XVIII 144-145: Agrippa’s ‘noble spirit’ is said to have caused ‘lavishness in giving’ (the latter meant spending money on luxuries and giving bribes to the emperor’s freedmen)"
AJ 18.6.1 Now as Agrippa was by nature magnanimous and generous in the presents he made, while his mother was alive this inclination of his mind did not appear; that he might be able to avoid her anger for such his extravagance. But when Bernice was dead, and he was left to his own conduct, he spent a great deal extravagantly in his daily way of living; and a great deal in the immoderate presents he made; and those chiefly among Caesar’s freed-men; in order to gain their assistance. Insomuch that he was in a little time reduced to poverty; and could not live at Rome any longer.

Who were the "freedmen" and what did Agrippa gain?
Depends on what period. There was the happy period when he was tutor to Tiberius' youngest son, until the son died, and Tiberius cut off all contact with those associated with his boy, so grief stricken he was. Agrippa, as noted above, was unable to borrow against the good will of association with the emperor, so this was when he went to work for his wife's brother, Antipas the Tetrarch, (for - shudder - WAGES!) as an important agora manager. Unfortunately he was so desperate for cash to live his preferred life of luxury, that he accepted a bribe from trade representatives from Damascus, and got caught.

Tird of living on the run from tax collectors (procurators big and small), Agrippa tried to return to Rome, hoping to get back into the good graces of Tiberius, and almost got arrested by a local procurator as a "debtor to the emperor" for a large amount of money, bribing the shipmaster on which he was interred to cut the mooring lines and escape to sea undetected by the guard.

The procurator wrote to the emperor's staff of this incident, and the emperor received this just before he had an audience with Agrippa. Maybe that was the whole reason he did give him an audience in the first place. Feeling pity on Agrippa, he gave him a new assignment, tutoring his other son Gaius.

They (Gaius and Agrippa) apparently got along smashingly, but maybe because Agrippa was a "fun" guy to hang with, oriental extravagance and all, not due to deep discussions about life. I doubt Agrippa's "religious" customs interested Gaius in the least, other than the visual aesthetics of the orient. They got along so well that Agrippa unwisely told Gaius how he wished Tiberius would just drop dead and leave Gaius in charge, within earshot of the carriage driver, who finked on him to emperor. Agrippa was thrown into prison with a chain around his waist. Finally Tiberius did die, and Gaius released him after a short period with a solid gold chain as a gift for the inconvenience.

But while Agrippa tried to finance his return trip to Rome, he is said to have tapped his own freedmen. These had probably long ago been manumitted, in Tiberius' time, and they obliged their patron with "loans."

So, Agrippa went from manumitting slaves and leaving them in charge of successful businesses, and throwing incredibly expensive parties for the emperor (Steven Huller would have really been in demand if he lived then), bribing the emperor's freedmen for closer access to the holy family, to the absolute reverse, of borrowing from his own relatively successful freedmen to make a good appearance before the emperor.

After he was appointed King of the old tetrarchy of Philip, he stayed in Rome with Gaius for about 2 years.

This guy's life was a virtual roller coaster! Super highs and super lows.

DCH
User avatar
billd89
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:27 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: Who were those Freedmen?

Post by billd89 »

DCHindley wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:48 am
billd89 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pmWho were the "freedmen" and what did Agrippa gain?
But while Agrippa tried to finance his return trip to Rome, he is said to have tapped his own freedmen. These had probably long ago been manumitted, in Tiberius' time, and they obliged their patron with "loans."
"Is said to have tapped his own", by whom?

There was the happy period when he was tutor to Tiberius' youngest son, until the son died, and Tiberius cut off all contact with those associated with his boy...
No offense, but much of that reads like b.s., to me. It simply doesn't add up, at all.

When you say of Agrippa (born 10 BC), "he was tutor to Tiberius' youngest son," do you know Drusus Julius Caesar was almost 5 years older than Agrippa? But why suppose a tutor -- reasonably, Age 20 (so: 10 AD) or older -- would "tutor" a Roman Quaestor (& his senior)?! Drusus was a Quaestor in 10 AD. And he died in 23 AD, Aged 37! (No "boy", he.) So much for that nonsense.

Then you imagine that Gaius is supposedly 'raised' by Agrippa (a Jew), his older 'fun guy' peer. This is ridiculous on the face of it. Agrippa is 22 years older than Gaius (Caligula, born 12 AD); Caligula was "adopted" by Tiberius (then Age 77) in 31 AD, at Age 19: certainly no child in that period, either. Agrippa is himself then a 41 yo male, an operator to be sure, but almost elderly by comparison to Gaius ... and broke?! It seems more likely that Tiberius saw Agrippa importuning Gaius (Age 24 c. 36 AD) somehow: messing with his imperial fuck-boy. And bribing staff! All this scheming lands Agrippa in prison, but Decadent, Psychopathic Gaius -- still something of political rube -- becomes Emperor (after smothering the old goat) and rewards the Jewish 'playboy' (and fellow schemer) after two years counsel (37-38 AD) with an expansive kingship.

This much makes sense: Gaius put his much older (48 yo) Jewish confidant in power, in the East: Gaius had known Agrippa probably 6-7 yrs at that point.

IF that is true -- the story we're getting, in its simplest form and chronological details -- then why does this same Gaius reportedly pester Philo Judaeus w/ inane questions about Jewish life and culture, in 40 AD? In fact, Gaius -- supposedly "tutored" by a prominent Jew (but that sounds absurd, it is probably false) -- knows almost nothing about the Jews, except that they will not worship him as a god.

We are left with the distinct impression that Agrippa wasn't really (i.e. practicing, devoutly) "Jewish" but rather, a fully Romanized opportunist who knew almost nothing of Jewish law, culture, etc. in his day.

The question of Agrippa's bribes to the "freedmen" of Tiberius still stands. Who were these "freedmen" -- Jews? Pagans of some other Semitic ethnicity? They are NOT indicated as fmr slaves of Agrippa (here) "manumitted"; I severely doubt a Jew had Jewish slaves in these Roman days, but I presume slaves could be bought on the open market.

The 'Synagogue of the Freedmen' is another sort of mystery, although maybe these groups overlap?
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3445
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Who were those Freedmen?

Post by DCHindley »

Yes, I was going from memory, but checking the Wikipedia entry on Agrippa I (aka Herod II), the gist of my statements were accurate.

I had researched this from Ant 18 & 19 in 2013 & 2014, as follows:
Agrippa (I), a grandson of Herod the Great, was sent to Rome at the tender age of six to be educated in Rome a few years after the execution of his father Aristobolus but just before the death of Herod the Great. His mother Bernice befriended Antonia, the widow of the elder Drusus, and members of an exceptionally well connected Roman family, and was raised with Tiberius' son also named Drusus.

Per Ant 18:145, after the death of his mother Bernice, Agrippa "spent a great deal extravagantly in his daily way of living, and a great deal in the immoderate presents he made, and those chiefly among Caesar's freedmen, in order to gain their assistance."

Unfortunately, Tiberius could not bear to see anyone connected with Drusus after his death, out of extreme grief, and Agrippa lost access to the imperial court. There was a period when the lack of access to his connections within the imperial household had driven him into desperate circumstances, as he could not pay back loans he had racked up.

He had been accepted into the court of Flaccus, the legate of Syria, who he knew from his period in Rome, until he accepted a bribe from a delegation from Damascus to influence Flaccus regarding a territorial dispute between the cities of Damascus and Sidon. Flaccus was a good friend of Agrippa from Agrippa's earlier, happier, days in Rome, and his kinsman Aristobolos was by coincidence also active in the same court circles. Agrippa and Aristobolus were themselves at odds with and distrusted each another on account of their immediate families' rival claims to Herod the Great's legacy. As soon as Aristobolos learned that Agrippa had accepted a bribe from the Damascenes to influence Flaccus with regard to a territorial dispute with the city of Sidon, he used this information to have Agrippa expelled from Flaccus' court.
At the request of his wife, Cypros, his sister Herodias (the wife of the tetrarch Herod Antipas) took pity on Agrippa and secured for him the appointment of market overseer in her new capital, Tiberias. But even this new fortune did not last; his brother-in-law took every opportunity to make Agrippa feel his dependent position. This Agrippa found too much to endure. He resigned his post (this part is directly from Jewish Encyclopedia).


Looks like I telescoped the bribery scandal with the job he got with Antipas by the influence of his sister.

It was after this kerfuffle that he was detained by Herrenius Capito, the procurator of Jamnia, as a debtor to the emperor (he owned the emperor's treasury "three hundred thousand drachmas of silver" per Ant 18:158). He was at the time in a ship in the harbor of Anthedon, ready to sail to Rome in an attempt to reestablish his connections to the Imperial court, and decided he had to make a run for it. He had the crew cut the mooring lines during the night and made a dash for the open sea before Capito's soldiers could prevent it.

Josephus relates that he was definitely in deep debt and was finding it progressively harder to obtain further loans. Those he could secure had so many strings attached that they barely sustained him. In one case he had already defaulted on a financial transaction with the patron, resulting in the lender deducting the arrears from the proceeds of the current loan.

The promised loan from the Alabarch was only partially delivered, only enough to get him to Capri, so he could make an appeal to Tiberius for patronage. Even there he needed to raise further funds to repay the Emperor's fiscus for an earlier loan he had defaulted on repaying. Tiberius got a letter from one of his procurators (small "p") that Agrippa had previously slipped out of a harbor to escape his demand for payment, and Tiberius had to take him aside and remind him that as fond as he was of Agrippa, he couldn't allow this kind of fiscal disrespect to stand.

After raising a partial loan in Alexandria from Alexander the alabarch (brother of Philo and father of Tiberius Julius Alexander who was later Procurator of Judea from 46 to 48 and the Prefect of Egypt from 66 to 69) to pay for travel expenses, he reached Puteoli where he wrote to Tiberius and managed to be invited back into the Emperor's court.

After he arrived at Capri in early 36 CE, and was warmly welcomed back into court, the emperor received a report from Capito describing how Agrippa shamefully escaped his detention, and imposed the condition that Agrippa repay the debt to the treasury before he was welcome back further.

Agrippa managed to secure a loan to pay back the imperial treasury from no less than Antonia, the mother of Germanicus (father of Gaius) and Claudius, who had been close friends with Agrippa's late mother Bernice, and was again granted access to the imperial court.

He was entrusted the education of Tiberius' grandson Tiberius Gemellus and despite their age difference became quite close to Gaius, Antonia's grandson and son of Germanicus.

When Philip the tetrarch died, Gaius appointed Agrippa as a king in his place. So, Agrippa I was King of Batanaea AD 37–41.
“Wikipedia wrote: Josephus relates that Herodias, jealous at Agrippa's success, persuaded Antipas to ask Caligula for the title of king for himself. However, Agrippa simultaneously presented the emperor with a list of charges against the tetrarch: allegedly, he had conspired against Tiberius with Sejanus (executed in 31 AD) and was now plotting against Caligula with Artabanus.

As evidence, Agrippa noted that Antipas had a stockpile of weaponry sufficient for 70,000 men. Hearing Antipas' admission to this last charge, Caligula decided to credit the allegations of conspiracy. In the summer of 39 AD, Antipas' money and territory were turned over to Agrippa, while he himself was exiled.[55] The place of his exile is given by Josephus' Antiquities as in Spain.[56]

Caligula offered to allow Herodias, as Agrippa's sister, to retain her property. However, she chose instead to join her husband in exile.[57]

Antipas died in exile.[58]”
After the deposing of Antipas, Gaius added Antipas' territory to his territory in Batanea in AD 40.

When Gaius was assassinated Agrippa was instrumental in securing the acceptance of Claudius as his successor. As a consolation, Claudius appointed him King of all Judaea AD 41, and he reigned close to 4 years before he died around 44 CE.
The jaunty storytelling is just my way of telling the story. Who needs fiction when real life contains so many twists and turns?

I see, there are also some dittographs.

DCH
andrewcriddle
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am

Re: Who were those Freedmen?

Post by andrewcriddle »

billd89 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2024 5:29 pm "AJ XVIII 144-145: Agrippa’s ‘noble spirit’ is said to have caused ‘lavishness in giving’ (the latter meant spending money on luxuries and giving bribes to the emperor’s freedmen)"
AJ 18.6.1 Now as Agrippa was by nature magnanimous and generous in the presents he made, while his mother was alive this inclination of his mind did not appear; that he might be able to avoid her anger for such his extravagance. But when Bernice was dead, and he was left to his own conduct, he spent a great deal extravagantly in his daily way of living; and a great deal in the immoderate presents he made; and those chiefly among Caesar’s freed-men; in order to gain their assistance. Insomuch that he was in a little time reduced to poverty; and could not live at Rome any longer.

Who were the "freedmen" and what did Agrippa gain?
The 'freedmen' were ex-slave senior officials in the imperial administration. Agrippa presumably hoped for the usual benefits from bribing senior government administrators. Pallas is an extreme example of what an imperial freedman could achieve.

Andrew Criddle
Post Reply