New Fragment of Mark! Dated 1st century!

[Steven Avery]

You don't unless you have an external verifiable marker.

We had some discussion of this claim, including Daniel Wallace trying to use it for a debate ambush, here:

New Testament Scholarship Worldwide
On the allegedly first century AD Mark fragment
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1519498 ... 661711421/

And I get into the issue of how New Testament textual theoreticians, especially Gordon Fee and Daniel Wallace, have really made absurd claims based on unsupported dating of the papyri. Some of these claims have to do with trying to support the Critical Text because of an early date of P75.

Steven Avery

[MrMacSon]

It was always possible to date gMark, and gMatthew, earlier than Antiquities and its dating of 93/94 c.e. The mention in both these gospels of Herodias being married to Philip establishes that.

Huh? The gosepels could be dated any time after the marriage?

(The Herodias and Philip material in Slavonic Josephus supports the gMark and gMatthew account).

Huh? How so?

Josephus, in Antiquities, having a different story to tell.....So a toss up - gMark and gMatthew in error - or Josephus? Coming down on the gospel writers as being in error serves only to let Josephus off the hook - and thus to limit any search for early christian origins.

Huh? How so?

[maryhelena]

It was always possible to date gMark, and gMatthew, earlier than Antiquities and its dating of 93/94 c.e. The mention in both these gospels of Herodias being married to Philip establishes that.

Huh? The gosepels could be dated any time after the marriage?

Check out Antiquities. That states that it is the daughter of Herodias, Salome, that is married to Philip.

(The Herodias and Philip material in Slavonic Josephus supports the gMark and gMatthew account).

Huh? How so?

Because it has Herodias married to Philip - like gMark and gMatthew....

Josephus, in Antiquities, having a different story to tell.....So a toss up - gMark and gMatthew in error - or Josephus? Coming down on the gospel writers as being in error serves only to let Josephus off the hook - and thus to limit any search for early christian origins.

Huh? How so?

Slavonic Josephus has Herodias married to Philip - as does gMark and gMatthew. Antiquities has Salome, daughter of Herodias, married to Philip.

Thus, anyone having Antiquities in front of them would not be writing about Herodias being married to Philip.

[MrMacSon]

But all that means is the writers of gMark or gMatthew did not have access to Antiquities, or did not take account of Antiquities.

Of course they may not have had account of Antiquities b/c Antiquities had not been written yet; but there are other possibilities: eg gMark & gMatthew were written by people who did not have access to Antiquities or did not take account of it.

and Slavonic Josephus was 'created' with alignment with gMark & GMatthew or similar documents ...

[maryhelena]

But all that means is the writers of gMark or gMatthew did not have access to Antiquities, or did not take account of Antiquities

So the writers of gMark and gMatthew were wrong?

[MrMacSon]

Dunno. Josephus could be wrong.

[maryhelena]

Dunno. Josephus could be wrong.

[outhouse]

This should not surprise any of you. Of course even with solid evidence, I still suspect most here will throw it out like everything else they do.

[MrMacSon]

It's interesting Slavonic Josephus aligns with gMark & gMatthew on this. But, yes maryhelena, we need to take all things alleged in those days with a grain of salt, unless those alleged-things are verified by other information.

[MrMacSon]

duplicate