Do you agree with this, and if so, what do you believe that it means in concrete terms?Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm "The use of abbreviations is, on the whole, as foreign
to the Greeks as it is congenial to the Romans and Byzantines.”
Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
It should be pointed out that "contracted nomina sacra" is not a redundancy. All "nomina sacra" are abbreviated. Not all of them are abbreviated by contraction (taking letters from the beginning and end). Some of them are abbreviated by suspension (taking the first letters).Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm 2. The earliest example of contracted nomina sacra on inscriptions are the Dura-Europos graffiti in the chapel, dated A.D. 232-3 (EDE 1931/2, p.241)
Both of these types of abbreviation (contraction and suspension) were found at Dura-Europos.
https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/306491?hs=40-48
τὸν Χν Ἰν ὑμεῖν. μν̣[ή]σκεσθε̣ [․․․ Πρ]όκλου.
https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/306490?hs=40-48
τὸν Χρισ. μνήσκεστε {²⁶μνήσκεσθε}²⁶
Σισε͂ον {²⁶Σ(ε)ισαῖον}²⁶ τὸν ταπι-
νόν.
(Of course it's always possible that the quoted author was imprecise or in error when writing about "contracted nomina sacra.")
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
Currently, I don't know whether this is true for Greek inscriptions. When I went through the Greek inscriptions, I skipped over the ones that were abbreviated, so I don't have a record of them. I also don't know anything directly about abbreviations other than the "X type" now because I also didn't search on that. So I guess I don't know if it's true for either Latin or Greek.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm 2. The earliest example of contracted nomina sacra on inscriptions
In the Latin database, regarding the "X type" abbreviations, there were three Latin inscriptions with abbreviations and specific second/third century dates.
Two of these are given an earlier date than the Dura-Europos inscriptions, but all three would appear to be abbreviations by suspension.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:38 pm Here's what the Latin inscription data looks like.
For consistency, I will remove the data with abbreviations from the Latin, as it is also not shown in the Greek.
CIL 06, 09028 (p 3464) = CIL 10, *01089,189 = IMCCatania 00407 = ICVaticano p 222
dating: 198 to 211 EDCS-ID: EDCS-18900312, province: Roma place: Roma
D(is) M(anibus) / Septimius Augg(ustorum) lib(ertus) / Alexander ex / procuratoribus / sibi vivo et Fulvi/ae Afrodite uxori / suae dulcissimae / Chr(istus?) posuit
ICUR-05, 15360 = ILCV 04650 (em) = ICVaticano p 2223 = Carletti-2008, 00010 = AE 1997, +00166 = AE 2006, +00150 = AE 2017, +00003
dating: 191 to 225 EDCS-ID: EDCS-34400116, province: Roma place: Roma
A(ulus) Egrilius / Bottus / Philades/potus dul/cissimus / et pientis/simus sui / parentes / fecerunt / vixit an(nos) / VIIII d(ies) XL / m(enses) sex // Chr(isti[?]) Ie(su[?])
ICUR-03, 08716 = ILCV 03315 (em)
dating: 268 to 279 EDCS-ID: EDCS-35900961, province: Roma place: Roma
Pasto[r et T]itiana e(t) Marciana et / Chr[e]st[e Mar]ciano filio bene merenti [in] I(esu) Chr(isto[?]) d(omino[?]) n(ostro[?]) fec[eru]nt qui vixit ann<o=V>s XII m(enses) II et d[ies 3] / qui <g=C>ra[tia]m accepit d(omini[?]) n(ostri[?]) die II Ka[l(endas) O]ctobres / [Probo III et No]nio Paterno II co(n)ss(ulibus) et red(d)<i=E>[dit] XI Kal(endas) [s(upra) s(criptas)] / vi<v=B>as inter sanctis in a[eternum]
This may suggest that the quoted author's wording was either (a) intentionally precise -- in other words, specifically about contracted forms of abbreviation, not all forms of abbreviation -- or (b) inaccurate, or possibly both.
- Leucius Charinus
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
- Location: memoriae damnatio
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
The claim was made by Avi-Yona c.1940, a professional epigraphist, so I would tend to give a reasonable weight to it. The claim is substantiated in the above post which lists at p.11 "the main categories of words commonly abbreviated (by the Romans and Byzantines)". These are substantial, and infiltrate into practically all areas of Roman society. IMO this indicates that the Romans and Byzantines were more or less obsessive abbreviators in the use of both Greek and Latin abbreviations.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:33 pmDo you agree with this, and if so, what do you believe that it means in concrete terms?Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm "The use of abbreviations is, on the whole, as foreign
to the Greeks as it is congenial to the Romans and Byzantines.”
Were the NT "nomina sacra" abbreviations invented by a Roman mind? IDK. However, given the presence of substantial elements of Roman propaganda within the NT (which I have listed elsewhere - like paying tax and tribute to Caesar), such a hypothesis IMO should not be ruled out of bounds.
- Leucius Charinus
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
- Location: memoriae damnatio
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
The context in which the author makes this statement is in respect of "modifications of Traube's theory" (of the NS). The author (using the Preliminary Report for the Dura Excavations) points to the lack of overbars (part of Traube's theory) and therefore refers to the above abbreviations as "individual freaks".Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:41 pmIt should be pointed out that "contracted nomina sacra" is not a redundancy. All "nomina sacra" are abbreviated. Not all of them are abbreviated by contraction (taking letters from the beginning and end). Some of them are abbreviated by suspension (taking the first letters).Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm 2. The earliest example of contracted nomina sacra on inscriptions are the Dura-Europos graffiti in the chapel, dated A.D. 232-3 (EDE 1931/2, p.241)
Both of these types of abbreviation (contraction and suspension) were found at Dura-Europos.
https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/306491?hs=40-48
τὸν Χν Ἰν ὑμεῖν. μν̣[ή]σκεσθε̣ [․․․ Πρ]όκλου.
https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/306490?hs=40-48
τὸν Χρισ. μνήσκεστε {²⁶μνήσκεσθε}²⁶
Σισε͂ον {²⁶Σ(ε)ισαῖον}²⁶ τὸν ταπι-
νόν.
(Of course it's always possible that the quoted author was imprecise or in error when writing about "contracted nomina sacra.")
Additionally - FWIW nothing to do with Avi Yona's statements - I have suggested that XPIC (without overbars) may alternatively represent a profane abbreviation:
XPIC as XPIC(TES) a “usual” [6] abbreviation of Χρίστης – Χρίσ[της] - one who colours with whitewash, a whitewasher or stucco-maker. No other examples of this abbreviation appear to have been preserved from antiquity. But then again, very few painted murals have survived. In this alternative, Sisaeus the humble wished to be remembered as the stucco-maker and tradesman.
[6] Meaning the first four letters of either Christos or Whitewasher
The Runes of Christ at Dura Europos
https://www.academia.edu/38115589/The_R ... ra_Europos
[6] Meaning the first four letters of either Christos or Whitewasher
The Runes of Christ at Dura Europos
https://www.academia.edu/38115589/The_R ... ra_Europos
- Leucius Charinus
- Posts: 2842
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
- Location: memoriae damnatio
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
Avi Yonah's epigraphic collection is for Greek inscriptions only. IDK whether this 1940 observation was true for the Greek inscriptions in 1940 or indeed, if it was true, still holds true 84 years later.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:56 pmCurrently, I don't know whether this is true for Greek inscriptions. When I went through the Greek inscriptions, I skipped over the ones that were abbreviated, so I don't have a record of them. I also don't know anything directly about abbreviations other than the "X type" now because I also didn't search on that. So I guess I don't know if it's true for either Latin or Greek.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 8:25 pm 2. The earliest example of contracted nomina sacra on inscriptions
These Latin inscriptions are interesting and new to me. Really appreciate them being dug out. I will respond separately with some questions.In the Latin database, regarding the "X type" abbreviations, there were three Latin inscriptions with abbreviations and specific second/third century dates.
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
One less dramatic way to say this was that the abbreviations on inscriptions were not necessarily standardized.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:16 pm The context in which the author makes this statement is in respect of "modifications of Traube's theory" (of the NS). The author (using the Preliminary Report for the Dura Excavations) points to the lack of overbars (part of Traube's theory) and therefore refers to the above abbreviations as "individual freaks".
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
Methodologically this proposal has no merit.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:16 pm Additionally - FWIW nothing to do with Avi Yona's statements - I have suggested that XPIC (without overbars) may alternatively represent a profane abbreviation:
XPIC as XPIC(TES) a “usual” [6] abbreviation of Χρίστης – Χρίσ[της] - one who colours with whitewash, a whitewasher or stucco-maker. No other examples of this abbreviation appear to have been preserved from antiquity. But then again, very few painted murals have survived. In this alternative, Sisaeus the humble wished to be remembered as the stucco-maker and tradesman.
[6] Meaning the first four letters of either Christos or Whitewasher
- Peter Kirby
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8629
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
- Location: Santa Clara
- Contact:
Re: Everybody knew what the nomina sacra were
No worries. We may learn more if we look through the inscriptions again with an eye towards the abbreviations instead.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 4:21 pm These Latin inscriptions are interesting and new to me. Really appreciate them being dug out. I will respond separately with some questions.