What were the beliefs of Early Ebionaen Christianity?

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ebion
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Re: Vexen Crabtree: 1st. Century Ebionites: The Original Christians

Post by ebion »

GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:25 pm I strongly doubt the accuracy of their statement about Melito of Sardis. I haven't looked into the Lüdemann reference yet, but will have a look over the weekend.
Thank-you very much for your help. My nose twitched at little when I read that, but it's such a fascinating conjecture, I decided to put it up; I don't know them or the book, so I'm very grateful you put up the quotes.
Also I'm not sure about the site I got it off, so if it's sketchy it's my fault for not checking more. I'm not accepting it blindly at face value, but even on no evidence, it's logical to consider that all the versions could have been different and circulating at the same time as late as 160 AD, probably finally edited into the Matthew we have now.

Any idea what book Lüdemann (2) is refering to? There's nothing in (2) that justifies the quote of Melito...
(2) Lüdemann, G. (1995), 31. Apparently this group of apostates was all that was left of the Jerusalem Church that God had so carefully preserved from destruction in 70 CE. Irenaeus leaves us in no doubt that the Ebionites were Gnostics, see Lüdemann, 247, note 111.Epiphanius tells us that the Ebionites were vegetarians, see Barnstone, W. (1984), 203, a practice almost universally associated with Pythagoreanism
in the ancient world.
I reject out of hand the assertion that "Irenaeus leaves us in no doubt that the Ebionites were Gnostics"; my definition of (bad)Gnostic is 2 gods etc. If (2) is all there is to support the quote, it's insufficient for me. I'm a (good)Gnostic because I seek knowlege.

I appreciate your help.

PS: Gospel of the Twelve Apostles may be the Didache
Last edited by ebion on Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:03 am, edited 6 times in total.
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GakuseiDon
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Re: Vexen Crabtree: 1st. Century Ebionites: The Original Christians

Post by GakuseiDon »

ebion wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:42 pmAny idea what book Lüdemann (2) is refering to? There's nothing in (2) that justifies the quote of Melito...
It isn't clear in Freke and Gandy's book but I'm guessing it's Lüdemann's "The resurrection of Christ : a historical inquiry" since it fits the year of publication listed in F&G. I found references to Melito in it but I'm relying on archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/resurrectio ... p?q=melito

Lüdemann describes Melito going to Jerusalem but nothing about him finding Ebionites or Gnostics there. Lüdemann references Stuart George Hall's "On Pascha and Fragments" (1979), but I can't find the text online unfortunately.

Yes, Melito of Sardis seems to have been a very important figure around the middle of the Second Century. He seems to have been an influential and prolific writer of Christian texts including philosophical works. Being based in the eastern part of the Roman Empire he was more likely to have come across the Jewish Christian groups there. Unfortunately only fragments of his writings remain.

Personally, I'd LOVE F&G's comment to be true. I believe that the Ebionites were a continuation of the original Christian movement, and their comment would fit nicely into that. I just don't trust them though.
ebion
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Melito of Sardis

Post by ebion »

GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:33 pm It isn't clear in Freke and Gandy's book but I'm guessing it's Lüdemann's "The resurrection of Christ : a historical inquiry" since it fits the year of publication listed in F&G. I found references to Melito in it but I'm relying on archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/resurrectio ... p?q=melito
COOL! I didn't know you could search inside books like that!!!
GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:33 pm Lüdemann describes Melito going to Jerusalem but nothing about him finding Ebionites or Gnostics there. Lüdemann references Stuart George Hall's "On Pascha and Fragments" (1979), but I can't find the text online unfortunately.
...
Personally, I'd LOVE F&G's comment to be true. I believe that the Ebionites were a continuation of the original Christian movement, and their comment would fit nicely into that. I just don't trust them though.
I'll leave the posting up, with the quote caveated, as i had not considered all the gospels exsisting in parallel at that time, but I should of. So even if we reject the citation as proof, the question itself is logical and worth raising. I'd love it to be true too, and there's nothing to say it isn't - I'm surprised that I never considered it. And you have confirmed that he went to Jerusalem, which increases the probability a lot; he can't have found nothing ;-,)
GakuseiDon wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:33 pm Yes, Melito of Sardis seems to have been a very important figure around the middle of the Second Century. He seems to have been an influential and prolific writer of Christian texts including philosophical works. Being based in the eastern part of the Roman Empire he was more likely to have come across the Jewish Christian groups there. Unfortunately only fragments of his writings remain.
And I'm grateful to learn of Melito of Sardis, as he looks like he's an un-orthodox freethinker, and very Early. He wasn't on my radar at all, and I remember seeing something about a recent discovery of something of his. I'm doing a little digging on him to get to know him better, and if there's anything interesting I'll summarize for the thread. There's not much known by him. So far:
Last edited by ebion on Wed Dec 06, 2023 10:39 pm, edited 6 times in total.
ebion
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Like Jesus, Ebionaens did not hold to all of the Pentateuch

Post by ebion »

The Early Christians conformed to the Mosaic law, but like Jesus, may not have held to all of the Pentateuch. in the Panarian, Epiphanius writes: "18:7 Nor do they accept Moses' Pentateuch in its entirety; they reject certain sayings." Although they were mostly all Hebrews at the outset, Christ's teachings made them a sect within a broad range of Hebrews. We'll delineate the obvious deviations from the Pentateuch we would expect to find with Early Christian Ebioneans. Indeed we expect to find these deviations with all Christians.

1) Jewish Supremacism

We don't think Christians in general or the Ebionaens in particular accept Moses' Pentateuch in its entirety. For example, Christians reject the parts used to justify Jewish Supremacism:
  • Deuteronomy 28: 1, 10; 15: 6.
  • Genesis 27: 28-29; Deuteronomy 6: 10-11.
  • Deuteronomy 11: 23, 25: 2: 25.
  • Deuteronomy 23:19-20.
    f
  • Deuteronomy 7: 2, 16.
  • Deuteronomy 20: 10-14, 16-17.
Christians reject the mercyless parts of the Pentaeuch, for example:
And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
(Deut. 7:2 [KJV])
2) End of sacrifices

Mark 12:33 [KJV] denigrates the sacrifices but does not exclude them. But in John 2:14-16 Jesus drives the money-changers out of the temple, and also the animals used for sacrifices:
And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. (John 2:14-16 [KJV])
Whipping bankers is always a good idea, but why bother with the animals if you're not making a statement? We certainly see no "Jesus' pro-sacrifice position in the NT". John makes it explicit that it's all the animals, but it's in Matthew too:
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. (Matthew 21:12-13 [KJV])
And Matthew 12:7 [KJV] is explicitly anti-sacrifice to our eyes:
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. (Matthew 12:7 [KJV])
Elsje Massyn May 16, 2023 has an interesting point of view on this:
Jesus did not have to abolish something His Father never instituted. He came to convey an error in Judaism that has become engrained in the theological thought patterns of Jewish leaders that "there is no remission of sin without shedding of blood" which was a lie from the beginning. Amos 6:6-7 / Matthew 12: 7 would not say: "I DO WANT MERCY NOT SACRIFICE" If He ever wanted Sacrifice. God's mind is not twisted that He cannot remember what He said. It's the lying pens of the Scribes and Pharisees Jeremiah 8:8 that have twisted God's words for thousands of years. God CLEARLY says in Jeremiah 7: 22-23 HE NEVER INSTRUCTED LAWS W.R.T. SACRIFICES when He lead the Israelites out of Egypt. Yeshua's main purpose was to find the Lost Sheep of Israel, teach the TRUE MESSAGE of God the Father's compassion and love for them and break down the sacrificial temple system that falsely held them guilty until bloodshed of an animal was proven in sacrifice. God NEVER added 600+ laws.
Peter in the Clementine Homilies details the logic of the Ebionaens opposition to the sacrifices. To which we add (Hos. 6:6):
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6 [KJV])
3) Probibition on mixed marriages

We conjecture that Early Christians rejected:
Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. (Deut. 7:3 [KJV])
4) Softer Conversion

AFAIK conversion which was very difficult/prohibited in the Pentateuch, even though there were lots of exception by ways of mixed marriages (see 3 above).

Circumcision was a hugely painful subject under the Jamesian church, which insisted on it, but it would not be surprising if the process of softened under later both Ebionaen and Nazorean Christianity. Eventually it could be argued that it was replaced by baptism. It is specifically cited it as an observance of the Ebionaens, although we can't say if it was unique to them; it may even have been a show of their opposition to Paulunism.

Kararites, Essenes and Samaratains are all Hebrews, as are the Early Christians keeping to Mosaic law (unlike Paul). The Sadduccees and the Pharasees did not have a monopoly in the definition of who is a Hebrew; "rejecting large parts of the Torah/OT" sounds like a ritualistic accusation. The Essenes rejected anything to do with the corrupt temple including the sacrifices, "Law" or not. (Interestingly, Ephanius points to the Ebionaens adhering to "Judaism's Law of the Sabbath, circumcision, and all the other Jewish and Samaritan observances" - any debate that ignores Samaritan concepts is strange to us.)

5) Ebionaen Christians were not strict in their observance like 4th way Jews

Josephus spoke of Essenes, Sadducees and Pharisees, and a 4th way sect of "Jews":
But of the fourth sect of Jewish philosophy, Judas the Galilean was the author. These men agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions; but they have an inviolable attachment to liberty, and say that God is to be their only Ruler and Lord. (Antiquities of the Jews 18.1. 6.)
The wikipedia entry is interesting: Judas and Zealotry
In Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus states that Judas, along with Zadok the Pharisee, founded the "fourth sect" of 1st century Judaism [3] .... Josephus blamed this fourth sect, which he called the Zealots, for the First Jewish–Roman War of 66-73 AD, although some modern scholars [4: Reza Aslan, Zealot] think they were actually different groups: Judas & Zaddok's group of zealots were theocratic nationalists who preached that God alone was the ruler of Israel and urged that no taxes should be paid to Rome.[4]
So we distinguish Ebionaen Christians from what we will call Zealots, and already have in the OP that they were not Zealots: i.e. they did not oppose paying taxes to Rome (Matt. 22:21). Similarly the Essenes (friends of the Ebionaens) were not strict in their observance: they hated the Pharisees and Sadducees, and were anti-sacrifice and anti-temple. And given the interesting viewpoint above, anti-sacrifice might have been common.

6) We ignore traditions

There are a whole range of traditions that we ignore: ritual mourning, birth observances, marriage contracts, divorce etc. We simply observe that they cannot be claimed to be core beliefs of the Hebrews if some groups like the Essenes did not also accept them. And laws would not be continued by Christians if Jesus opposed them.

PS: See also the Ebionites were Law Observant but NOT Torah Observant in the Ritualistic Manner of the Jews.
Last edited by ebion on Wed Dec 06, 2023 6:59 am, edited 11 times in total.
StephenGoranson
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Re: What were the beliefs of Early Ebionaen Christianity?

Post by StephenGoranson »

Again, the "we" claim.
If you don't wish to give your real name, can you give a real name of anyone else you include in "we"?
ebion
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Re: Conjecture: the Ebionaens kept the Hebrew festivals

Post by ebion »

In addition to keeping the sabbath, (Josephus says everyone did), we conjecture that the Ebionaens kept the Hebrew festivals of:
  • Passover on the 14th of Nissan, with a rememberance of the last supper at the first Seder, even though it wasn't a seder. Passover is not Easter, and the date would be set by (one of) the Hebrew lunar calendars.
  • Sukkot or Feast of the Booths or Feast of the Tabernacles, as Jesus did. (John 7:2-52)
    It's not clear what the rituals would be in the time of the 2nd temple; are modern rituals are all be rabbinical midrash based?
  • Hanukkah or the Festival of Lights, as Jesus did in (John 10:22-23).
And maybe Penecost, on the Quartodecimian calendar?
(They do not celebrate Purim, a vengeful commemoration.)

In addition, they would have kept the Christian festivals of:
  • Passover celebrating the last Supper rather than the resurrection.
  • Epiphany on Jan. 7th, remembering Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist.
Xmas
They do not celebrate Xmas, which is the Roman pagan birthday of Sol Invictus. The early Church of the East did not celebrate Christmas at all. It rather celebrated the Epiphany on Jan. 7th. December 25th came into "Christianity" after Constantine/PontifexMaxiumus after 321 AD: it was the birthday of Sol Invictus. See: Is Constantine's Sol Invictus god also Baal in Bible Why Was Jesus given Sol's 12-25 birthday.

It's important to distinguish Early Christianity from the worship of Mithras/Sol Invictus, as Constantine, as Pontifex Maximus, changed the Sabbath in Ebionaen Christianity into the Lord's Day of Contantinian Xtianity, and put the date of Easter onto the Solar calendar.

Sukkoth
Origin of Sukkot
In the Torah, the Lord gives Moses specific instructions for a harvest feast of thanksgiving:
On the fifteenth day of this seventh month and for seven days is the Feast of Booths to the LORD. On the first day shall be a holy convocation; you shall not do any ordinary work. For seven days you shall present food offerings to the LORD. On the eighth day you shall hold a holy convocation and present a food offering to the LORD. It is a solemn assembly; you shall not do any ordinary work.

[…]On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the produce of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the LORD seven days. On the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest. And you shall take on the first day the fruit of splendid trees, branches of palm trees and boughs of leafy trees and willows of the brook, and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days. . . . You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All native Israelites shall dwell in booths, that your generations may know that I made the people of Israel dwell in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 23:39-43)
Despite the length and intricacy of God’s directions regarding Sukkot, in later times the holiday fell into disuse. The book of Nehemiah records that the people after many years of corruption and non-observance once more commemorated Sukkot during his reign by building booths:
And all the assembly of those who had returned from the captivity made booths and lived in the booths, for from the days of Jeshua the son of Nun to that day the people of Israel had not done so. And there was very great rejoicing. And day by day, from the first day to the last day, he read from the Book of the Law of God. They kept the feast seven days, and on the eighth day there was a solemn assembly, according to the rule. (Nehemiah 8:17-18)
Ephiphanius berates the Nazoreans for keeping the festivals (Pan. 1.29.8:1):
But they too are wrong to boast of circumcision, and persons like themselves are still 'under a curse,'^[604]40 since they cannot fulfil the Law. For how will they be able to fulfil the Law's provision, "Thrice a year thou shalt appear before the Lord thy God, at the feasts of Unleavened Bread, Tabernacles and Pentecost,"^[605]41 on the site of Jerusalem?
so maybe Pentecost should be added to the list.
schillingklaus
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Re: What were the beliefs of Early Ebionaen Christianity?

Post by schillingklaus »

Early Ebioneans are a hallucinatory figment. Ebioneans were the result of a late, exaggerated Judaization of Christianity.
ebion
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Re: What were the beliefs of Early Ebionaen Christianity?

Post by ebion »

Later Constantinians are hallucinating liars. Churchunists are the result of a late, exaggerated Mollochization by the Pontifix Maximus for Sol Invictus.
Last edited by ebion on Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ebion
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RConjecture: observing Passover on the 14th of Nisan

Post by ebion »

As the Early Ebionaen Christians were close to their Hebrew roots, we conjecture that they observed Passover on the 14th of Nisan; Quartodecimains.
ebion
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Conjecture: Early Christian Ebionaens were Concientious Objectors

Post by ebion »

From an Early Christian Forum Why Bar Kochba persecuted Christians?:
DCHindley wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:31 am
it seems to be hard history that bar Kochba persecuted Jewish Christians.
That is an interpretation of one phrase in the fragments of one of Bar Kokhba's actual letters, bolstered by general statements preserved in Justin Martyr's 1st Apology and Eusebius' Chronicle.

"From Simeon ben Kosiba to Yeshua ben Galgoula and to the men of the fort, peace! I take heaven to witness against me that unless you mobilise [destroy?] the Galileans who are with you every man, I will put fetters upon your feet as I did to ben Aphlul." (http://cojs.org/cojswiki/The_Bar_Kokhba_Letters:_Day-to-Day_Conduct_of_the_Revolt )

"For in the present war it is only the Christians whom Barchochebas, the leader of the rebellion of the Jews, commanded to be punished severely, if they did not deny Jesus as the Messiah and blaspheme him." Justin, First Apology 31.5-6

"Cochebas, the duke of the Jewish sect, killed the Christians with all kinds of persecutions, when they refused to help him against the Roman troops." Eusebius, Chronicle, Hadrian, year 17. (latter two at http://www.livius.org/ja-jn/jewish_wars ... tml#Justin )

Since Yeshua ben Galgoula was "Chief of the Camp" and had control of Ein Gedi, why would he have "Galileans" among the locals? Assuming they were not some sort of refugees, the term then seems then to be a catch-term for a certain group ort class of people.

It is uncertain what the Hebrew word variously translated "mobilize" or "destroy" was intended to mean.
I'm going to translate the Hebrew word "mobilize" as: mobilize; i.e. pressed into service to fight.(Bar Kokhba was derided by some as “Bar Kosiva” (a pun on the Hebrew word for liar.)

From which I conjecture that the Early Christian Ebionaens were Conscientious Objectors. Like e.g. the Anabaptists or Quakers or Shakers.

FWIW. the Britanica says:
Dion Cassius noted that the Christian sect refused to join the revolt.
I can't find the quote, but the word "refused" has the flavour of conscientious Objection.

And James is in our Ebionaen Canon. so we can back up the conjecture with the quote:
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. (James 4:1-2 [KJV])
An Early Christian version of: All Wars are Bankers' Wars.

PS: Our conjecture is refuted by:
andrewcriddle wrote: Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:05 am
rgprice wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:44 am Firstly, where does this state that Eusebius attributes to Justin come from?
1st Apology
For in the Jewish war which lately raged, Barchochebas, the leader of the revolt of the Jews, gave orders that Christians alone should be led to cruel punishments, unless they would deny Jesus Christ and utter blasphemy.
Last edited by ebion on Sat Feb 03, 2024 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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