Matthew => Hebrews

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Charles Wilson
Posts: 2107
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Matthew => Hebrews

Post by Charles Wilson »

Hello everyone --

Esteemed Poster RGPrice has commented on Hebrews with a Matthean Flavor and it has brought out some thoughts on the matter (RGP Post edited):
rgprice wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2023 8:33 am
1) There was a real Gospel of the Hebrews and it was written in Aramaic.
2) There was no such thing as a Gospel of the Hebrews written in Aramaic, rather various claims about it were repeated amplified by a few writers.
There is another alternative and it involves the people that were (mostly) in Jerusalem. We read as well all the time that "The NT was written in Greek" and we are faced with a person such as Nicholas of Damascus who was in Jerusalem for decades as Rome's Political Control Officer. He argued in front of Caesar (He always won!) and wrote extensively. If we allow a little speculation, we may look at Nic-o-D'Mus ("A Ruler of the Jews") who doesn't understand a Jewish Idiom about being "Born Again" that goes back to Sumer. If Kramer is to be believed, "Return to Mother" is the first mention of the modern word "Freedom". Nicholas of Damascus (and brother Ptolemy) are always around Herod et.al. He must have been very multilingual and should be considered for an Author of the NT.

Mucianus is another. According to Tacitus, Mucianus, Procurator of Syria, could compose an Oratorio in Greek spontaneously. He held Imperial Power in his hands and gave it all to Vespasian. I very sincerely believe that Mucianus was the basis for Paul. He may have been a eunuch.

There is Zakkai and others who probably had a hand in the Origins of the NT. It is not as simple as "The NT was written in Greek" - or Aramaic.
Then we have the question of whether this Aramaic Gospel actually pre-dated Matthew.

It is possible that the Gospel of Matthew was translated into Aramaic or that an Aramaic Gospel was derived from Matthew.
What is the prospect of Matthew having been derived from an Aramaic Gospel of the Hebrews? ...It seems impossible that Matthew is derived from an independent Aramaic Gospel.

It would, I suppose, be possible that the Gospel of the Hebrews could have itself been derived from Mark. The other option would be that Mark was written in Aramaic originally and the Gospel of the Hebrews was derived from it in Aramaic. But things start to get really complicated when we consider the entire Synoptic problem. It seems to me that the only reasonable solution to the Synoptic problem is that Matthew is a harmonization of Mark and proto-Luke. That being said, if the Gospel of the Hebrews looked anything like Matthew, then I don't see how it could be anything other than a work derived from the Greek Matthew.
Someone had a keen insight into Hebrew/Aramaic:

John 1: 29 (RSV):

[29] The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

This is a STUPENDOUS Clue as to the nature of the Construction of the NT. According to the Pettinato (Ebla: An Empire Inscribed in Clay) in Sumer are found many names that combine a god name with an animal name - "Nimrod" may come to us from " 'nmmr-ha'ad" - "Panther of Haad". " 'nmmr-Yah" - "Panther of Yah" which leads to "Immar-Yah" - Lamb of Yah". "Marya" perhaps?

With this we come to a possible Link from Matthew to Hebrews. I do not propose to answer the question as to the Original Language of Matthew. There is, however, something of a Pointer in Matthew that leads us to examine something quite Jewish in Matthew and that is what James Moffatt so elegantly translates as "Realm of Heaven" (If our Friend Martijn Mlinssen want me to translate this phrase as "Realm of the Heavens", I would be happy to do so.)

If you look at a searchable version of Moffatt (Internet Archive f'rinstance) <Search> for "Realm of Heaven" (Quote Marks required).

You will find the 30-some-odd verses with "Realm of Heaven".

The first verses, containing the Beatitudes, fit with the Slaughter of the 3000+ at the Temple at the ascension of Archelaus. Later come verses, somewhat opaque, on the value of the Realm of Heaven.

Then, a Gem of a verse:

Matthew 18: 3 (RSV and Moffat):

[3] and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven ("Realm of Heaven").

I believe that this is a literal (Non-Metaphysical!) description that points to a Real, Physical Place. In this case, a small, very small Passageway that leads Peter and a Priest from the Slaughter to Safety.

[Note: Matthew 19: 13 - 15 concerns Caesar and Herod's many children. The man who asks what he must do to obtain Eternal Life is Archelaus. Cynicism!!!]

Finally for this Post:
Matthew 23: 13 (RSV, Moffatt):

[13] "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven (Realm of Heaven) against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.

This is about as straightforward as it gets. This is Human Activity on Earth. The Scribes and Pharisees are Human. The Realm of Heaven is on earth. No spirit Beings at all. The Doors were closed and thousands died. Plz see Matthew 25: 1 -13 for another description concerning the suddeness of the Death of the thousands.

Revelation 5: 10 (RSV):

[10] and hast made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on earth."

This suggests that the "Realm of Heaven", appropriately in Judaic Tradition, is an earthly place for Human Priests.
***
We now have a reason for Hebrews. The Death of 3000+ at the ascension of Archelaus in 4 BCE is repeated in Hebrews as an imperfect expression to be replaced by a more Perfect Sacrifice:

Hebrews 9: Various (RSV):

[1] Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary.
[2] For a tent was prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence; it is called the Holy Place.
[3] Behind the second curtain stood a tent called the Holy of Holies,
[6]These preparations having thus been made, the priests go continually into the outer tent, performing their ritual duties;
[7] but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people.
[8] By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the sanctuary is not yet opened as long as the outer tent is still standing
[NOTE!: The Holy Spirit is a reference to DOMITIAN! This has been produced sometime after Vespasian the Father, Titus the son and Domitian the Damnatioed Holy Spirit.]

[11] But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation)
[12] he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
[13] For if the sprinkling of defiled persons with the blood of goats and bulls and with the ashes of a heifer sanctifies for the purification of the flesh,
[14] how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
[15] Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the transgressions under the first covenant.

Of course, this reinstates human sacrifice and is therefore a complete Non-Starter for Jews. Romans, maybe but not Jews. Period.

Thank you RGP.

CW
StephenGoranson
Posts: 2608
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:10 am

Re: Matthew => Hebrews

Post by StephenGoranson »

This is so incoherent that I don't know what you propose.
Is there a statement of your view that is clearer?
Charles Wilson
Posts: 2107
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Matthew => Hebrews

Post by Charles Wilson »

SG --

Time to move on, plz.
I've seen this game before and it's ugly.
Yes, I know, you are Entirely Innocent and merely asking honest questions, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Please post elsewhere.

CW
RandyHelzerman
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2023 10:31 am

Re: Matthew => Hebrews

Post by RandyHelzerman »

Charles Wilson wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:22 am Yes, I know, you are Entirely Innocent and merely asking honest questions, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum.
I didn't take him to be confrontational or playing any games, and he sure spoke for me when he said he couldn't make heads or tails out of it.
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