Meaning of Nazareth?

[Charles Wilson]

SG -

Back on the Front Lines again.
Found this:

https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2015/01/w ... %A6%D7%A8/

Does this give an accurate summary of what you assert? (Realizing that you don't have to AGREE with everything in the article, just the "Good Stuff"...)
Lemme know, Plz.

CW

[StephenGoranson]

No.
Non starter.
Maybe look up Rube Goldberg machine.

[Charles Wilson]

No.
Non starter.

OK. then, will you take a few moments to map out your positions explicitly? Explain the Texts and especially how it relates to your Objections to what I assert? Word Endings and their changes in this period appear to require decades of study. Tell us what you see.

Maybe look up Rube Goldberg machine.

Some might say my writings are a good example of such. To what are you applying this?

CW

[StephenGoranson]

CW wrote, above, in part:
"....Word Endings and their changes in this period appear to require decades of study...."
~~~~
What word endings are you referring to?
And of what relevance in this case?

[rgprice]

At any rate, it appears to me that no one really knows where the term came from or what it originally meant. I would wager that the original writer of Mark was using it to mean "consecrated", but that later writers interpreted it as the name of a town. However, since the phrase "Jesus of Nazareth" exists in all four Gospels, it does pose a question about how and when this conversion from designation of holiness to place or origin took place? John is particularly interesting since layers of John indicate that Jesus came from heaven, but other layers indicate he is from earth.

[MrMacSon]

... I would wager that the original writer of Mark was using it to mean "consecrated", but that later writers interpreted it as the name of a town.

Interestingly,
the LXX/Septuagint version of Judges 13.5 has introduced sanctified - ἡγιασμένον / [h]ēgiasmenon in addition to ναζιραῖον / 'naziraion' (compared to the Hebrew)

Judges 13.5 LXX:

from https://www.blueletterbible.org/lxx/jdg/13/5/s_224005 and https://biblehub.com/sepd/judges/13.htm
... ὅτι ἡγιασμένον ναζιραῖον ἔσται τῷ θεῷ τὸ παιδάριον ἐκ τῆς γαστρός, καὶ αὐτὸς ἄρξεται σῴζειν τὸν Ισραηλ ἐκ χειρὸς ἀλλοφύλων.

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[h]oti [h]ēgiasmenon nazireon estai tôi Theo to paidarion ek tes gastros

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literal word-for-word
..for sanctified nazireon shall be to God the child from the [stomach/abdomen]
.for sanctified nazireon to God shall be the child from the [womb], to lead & save Israel from hand/s foreign. See below for an alternative

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Deepl
that the child is sanctified Nazirite from the [stomach/abdomen]

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Benton's Septuagint Translation : https://biblehub.com/sep/judges/13.htm
for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the [womb]

(the only other place that ἡγιασμένον is used in the LXX and the NT is 2 Timothy 2:21)

Here's the Hebrew Judges 13.5 interlinear : nb. read right to left, ie. 1, 2, 3, etc.

......הַבָּ֑טֶן .	. מִן־ .	... הַנַּ֖עַר .	... יִהְיֶ֥ה .	. אֱלֹהִ֛ים .	. נְזִ֧יר .
hab·bā·ṭen;	.min-	han·na·'ar	yih·yeh	ĕ·lō·hîm	.nə·zîr
6the-womb	5from	4the-child	3shall-be	2to-God	1a-nazarite .

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/judges/13-5.htm

Most if not all the English versions of Judges 13.5 : https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Judges%2013:5

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eta:
Wow, the LXX version of Judges 13.5,

from https://www.blueletterbible.org/lxx/jdg/13/5/s_224005 and https://biblehub.com/sepd/judges/13.htm
... ὅτι ἡγιασμένον ναζιραῖον ἔσται τῷ θεῷ τὸ παιδάριον ἐκ τῆς γαστρός

could literally be translated and read:

for [the] sanctified nazireon shall be the-God-the-child from the [womb]

[StephenGoranson]

Presuming a replacement of one term by another, unless by misunderstanding, may both lack evidence and also ignore the sense of observer (observer of Torah).

[rgprice]

Yes, I think that it was intended to mean "nazirite", and this is actually made quite obvious in Mark 1. Mark 1 actually explains what it means for the reader:

23 Just then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24 saying, “What business do we have with each other, Jesus the Nazarene? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

We are being told that "the Nazarene" means "the Holy One of God". That this means Jesus is one who was destined to be the Son of God from birth makes sense.

This meaning can make perfect sense, and fits with the "adoptionist" concept in Mark. This does indeed seem to contradict my idea that the original Markan narrative had portrayed Jesus coming from heaven. Understanding that Jesus is from Capernaum and goes from his hometown to be baptized and then back to his hometown makes a lot of sense. If we then throw in "the Nazarene" to be a designation meaning that Jesus was holy "from birth" then many pieces seem to fall into place.

11 and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”

This forces me to re-think some things, but too many pieces here are lining up to ignore it.

Jesus is the Holy One of God from birth, a nazirite, who was "set aside" by God from birth to be "God's Son". He comes from Capernaum, he then receives the Holy Spirit and becomes the "Son of God", after which he returns home where people are astonished at the transformation.

Interestingly, this has parallels with Paul.

Galatians 1:15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles

This is exactly what the writer of Mark is doing. Once again, we see that Jesus is based on Paul.

[StephenGoranson]

Against the view of Jesus as a nazarite, besides not being so identified explicitly, are the Semitic spellings (with tsade not zayin) of the place name Nazareth and also the group name for Christians in Hebrew and Arabic. (Anchor Bible Dictionary, Nazarenes, covers some of this.)

[Secret Alias]

On the instability of Jesus's birthplace. Ephrem's Diatessaron which witnesses he and Marcion's gospel having Bethsaida in place of Nazareth at the beginning of the gospel. Note also the Marcionite and John's gospel having Jesus appear first in Judea (likely both also Jerusalem at his "father's house"). Whether or not we all agree there was a "supernatural Jesus gospel" with a visit of the "supernatural Son" visiting his "supernatural Father" at what is purported to be their "supernatural home[town?] i.e Jerusalem there is a case to be made that all these alleged birthplace (Bethlehem, Nazareth, Bethsaida, Capernaum) were successive attempts to obscure the "supernatural" Marcionite gospel. The gospel of (the?) Yoizel as my ancestors would call him.