Meaning of Nazareth?

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MrMacSon
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by MrMacSon »

MrMacSon wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 6:12 pm

Original Word: Ναζαρέτ
Part of Speech: Proper Noun, Indeclinable
Transliteration: Nazaret or Nazara or Nazareth

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin

of uncertain derivation

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

... As respects the Hebrew form of the name, it is disputed whether it was
  1. נֵצֶר, 'a sprout', 'shoot' (so, besides others, Hengstenberg, Christol. des A. T. ii., 124f. (English translation, ii., 106f); but cf. Gieseler in the Studien und Kritiken for 1831, p. 588f), or
  2. נֹצְרָה, 'protectress', 'guard' (cf. 2 Kings 17:9; so Keim, as above), or
  3. נִצֶרֶת, 'sentinel' (so Delitzsch in the Zeitschr. f. Luth. Theol. for 1876, p. 401), or
  4. נְצֹרֶת, 'watch-tower' (so Ewald in the Götting. gelehrt. Anzeigen for 1867, p. 1602f).
https://biblehub.com/greek/3478.htm



Another Hebrew word that means 'shoot,' sprout,' and branch is צמח, tsemach/ tsémakh.

For Zechariah 3.8 & 6.12 and Jeremiah 23.5 in the Greek Septuagint/LXX, נֵצֶר was either translated or, perhaps, replaced with ἀνατολὴν, anatolē.

George Walser, in Jeremiah: A Commentary based on Ieremias in Codex Vaticanus, 2012, noted:

ἀνατολὴν is a rendering of צמח. The meaning “shoot” is not attested before the Septuagint; but, since the verb ἀνατέλλω is used of plants springing up as early as Theophrastus (4-3 century BC), the meaning “shoot” is not very far-fetched. (pp.328-329)

RandyHelzerman wrote: Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:04 pm P.S. Lets not forget that Luke has the angel tell's Zacheriah that his son, John the Baptist, "He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born"
That's in Luke 1:67-79, the so-called Benedictus, iirc.
MrMacSon wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 11:59 am
Simon Gathercole 'The Heavenly ἀνατολή (Luke 1:78–9)' JTS vol. 56, no. 2. 2005, 471–488

Abstract
A consideration of the ἀνατολή figure in Luke 1:78–9 leads to the suggestion that this is not merely a Davidic messiah, but also a heavenly, pre-existent figure. After a review of the main lines of debate in the past century, the discussion is centred on four points. First, the visitation (ἐπισκέψεται) gives a strong impression of a divine figure. Secondly, from the evidence of the LXX and elsewhere in Luke, the advent of the figure ‘from on high’ (ἐξ ὕψους) points clearly to a heavenly origin for the ἀνατολή. Thirdly, though less conclusively, the reference to Isaiah 9 LXX strengthens the impression of an angelic ruler figure. Finally, the ἀνατολή itself is defined as both light-bringer and heavenly messiah, especially in contrast to the Ἀνατολή character in Zech. 6:12, who comes not ‘from on high’ but ‘from beneath’.

https://academic.oup.com/jts/article-ab ... 71/1708881
Last edited by MrMacSon on Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

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rgprice wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:18 pm
Nazirites are essentially people who have taken a vow to the Lord and been consecrated as being pure. Numbers tells us:


5 “All the days of their nazirite vow no razor shall come upon the head; until the time is completed for which they separate themselves to the Lord, they shall be holy; they shall let the locks of the head grow long.
...
8 All their days as nazirites they are holy to the Lord.


Reading Mark 1:24 in this context would yield:
“What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth the Consecrated? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are, the Holy One of God.”

Obviously, this makes a lot of sense. So this seems to point to the possibility that Jesus was identified as a nazirite, meaning someone consecrated as holy, but then this got turned into meaning "someone from the town of Nazareth".
  • See Judges 13:3-7 below

All the Torah/Hebrew Bible references to / uses of Nazarite seem to disappear in the Septuagint/LXX; yet the NT has references to Nazarēne, Nazarēnos or the like in Mark:
rgprice wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:32 pm
mentions of "Nazareth" [Nazarēne, Nazarēnos or the like] in Mark

1:24 καὶ σοί Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ
10:47 ὅτι Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζαρηνός ἐστιν
14:67 Καὶ σὺ μετὰ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ
16:6 Ἰησοῦν ζητεῖτε τὸν Ναζαρηνὸν τὸν ἐσταυρωμένον

----

Also in Acts we have:

24:5 πρωτοστάτην τε τῆς τῶν Ναζωραίων αἱρέσεως
24.5 a [ring]leader of the Nazōraiōn haireseōs/sect (haireseōs is where heresy come from)
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/24.htm

rgprice wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 11:44 am
1:9 Nazaret / Ναζαρὲτ
1:24 Nazarēne / Ναζαρηνέ
10:47 Nazarēnos / Ναζαρηνός
14:67 Nazarēnou / Ναζαρηνοῦ
16:6 Nazarēnon / Ναζαρηνὸν


Nota bene:
MrMacSon wrote: Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:54 pm
ναζιραῖον/Nαζιραῖον is in Judges 13:5 and 7 (Noun - accusative singular masculine)
(the English here is from Brenton's Septuagint translation; the Greek is from the LXX)

Judges 13:3-7


3 And an angel of the Lord appeared to the woman, and said to her,
"Behold, thou art barren and hast not born; yet thou shalt conceive a son. 4 And now be very cautious, and drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat no unclean thing; 5 for behold, thou art with child, and shalt bring forth a son; and there shall come no razor upon his head, for the child shall be [consecrated]a a Naziraoin1 to God from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel from the hand of the Phylistines."

5b ὅτι ἡγιασμένονa ναζιραῖον1 ἔσται τῷ θεῷ τὸ παιδάριον ἐκ τῆς γαστρός καὶ αὐτὸς ἄρξεται σῴζειν τὸν Ισραηλ ἐκ χειρὸς ἀλλοφύλων
5b 'for consecrateda Naziraoin1 will be to God the child from the womb ...'
. = for consecrateda Naziraoin1 to God will be the child from the womb

6 And the woman went in, and spoke to her husband, saying,
"A man of God came to me, and his appearance was as of an angel of God, very dreadful; and I did not ask him whence he was, and he did not tell me his name. 7 And he said to me, 'Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bring forth a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat no unclean thing; for the child shall be holy a Naziraoin2 to God from the womb until the day of his death'."

7b ὅτι ναζιραῖον2 θεοῦ ἔσται τὸ παιδάριον ἀπὸ τῆς γαστρὸς ἕως ἡμέρας θανάτου αὐτοῦ
7b 'for Naziraoin2 [to] God shall be the child ...'


a = sanctified

1 translated/transliterated in English as Nazarite

2 'Nazarite' is not in Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint but it is in most other English versions of v.7

Aspects of Judges 13:3-7 seem so like aspects of accounts in the NT about Jesus +/- John (Luke? Matthew?)
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

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MrMacSon wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:10 pm
RT France pointed out that Matthew gives Nazorean as Ναζωραῖος which is similar to what the Septuagint has for "Nazirite" - ναζιραιον
  • France, RT. The Gospel of Matthew, pp. 92-93.
And, Nazirite/Nazarite, which comes from nazir (which, in turn, comes from net.ser), can mean (i) under a vow; (ii) consecrated; (iii) vow of 'separation'; or (iv) crowned eg. Judges 13:1-7

And ne.tser (etc) = a branch; a shoot; a descendant http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5342.htm

As John2 has pointed out, there is a major messianic link with netser in Isaiah 11:1

Natzeret = ne.tser (or a variant) plus the feminine ending, designated by the letter Tav

and Nazeroth is the feminine-plural

Apparently, technically we should not use a letter "z" in "Nazarene" because the letter is a tsade - צ - with a "ts" sound

cf. the word 'nazir' which uses a zayin (z).

eta
There are also references to linguistic discrepancies due "a peculiarity of the 'Palestinian' Aramaic dialect wherein a sade (ṣ) (tsade) between two voiced (sonant) consonants tended to be partially assimilated by taking on a zayin (z) sound" -
  • Carruth, S; Robinson, J McC; Heil, C. (1996) Q 4:1–13,16: the temptations of Jesus : Nazara. Peeters Publishers. p 415.



And 'na·ṣar'/natsar/ - נָצַר - means "to watch" (c.f. 'netser', said to mean "branch");

hence 'Natsarith' means watchtower, and 'Natsarim' are 'watchmen'

Nazareth is in a small basin on a hill/range (and from a nearly ridge apparently one can look out over plains towards the Sea of Galilee)

There is also a view there is a passive meaning of 'preserved, protected' in reference to its secluded position -
  • RH Mounce, "Nazareth", in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, GW Bromiley (ed), Vol 3: Eerdmans, 1986; pp 500–1
The word "Gennetsaret" ('vale of Netsar') is said to refer to the whole district.

Ben C. Smith wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:21 pm
MrMacSon wrote: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:10 pmApparently, technically we should not use a letter "z" in "Nazarene" because the letter is a tsade - צ - with a "ts" sound
This is true for transcribing the Hebrew place name, but Nazareth is fine for transcribing the Greek place name, since it has a zeta, which comes out in English as a zee/zed virtually every time.
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by Charles Wilson »

MrMacSon wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:14 am And 'na·ṣar'/natsar/ - נָצַר - means "to watch" (c.f. 'netser', said to mean "branch");
hence 'Natsarith' means watchtower, and 'Natsarim' are 'watchmen'
As usual, MrMacSon, your arguments are well reasoned.
Consider:

Mark 13: 33 - 37 (RSV):

[33] Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.
[34] It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch.
[35] Watch therefore -- for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning --
[36] lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
[37] And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."

Watch what? Who "Watches"?

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mi ... -ma-amadot

"As the priests were numerous and scattered throughout Palestine, it was impossible for all of them to officiate at the same time. An arrangement was therefore made whereby they were divided (in the final stage) regionally into 24 mishmarot (lit. "guards"; Ta'an. 4:2)..."

Mark 14: 54 (RSV):

[54] And Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest; and he was sitting with the guards, and warming himself at the fire.

Unpacking the Cross-Linked Clues here requires much more than a short Post but the Watch/Guard is centered around the the death of the 3000:

Josephus, War..., 2, 1, 3:

"At this Archclaus was aftrighted, and privately sent a tribune, with his cohort of soldiers, upon them, before the disease should spread over the whole multitude, and gave orders that they should constrain those that began the tumult, by force, to be quiet. At these the whole multitude were irritated, and threw stones at many of the soldiers, and killed them; but the tribune fled away wounded, and had much ado to escape so. After which they betook themselves to their sacrifices, as if they had done no mischief; nor did it appear to Archelaus that the multitude could be restrained without bloodshed; so he sent his whole army upon them, the footmen in great multitudes, by the way of the city, and the horsemen by the way of the plain, who, falling upon them on the sudden, as they were offering their sacrifices, destroyed about three thousand of them; but the rest of the multitude were dispersed upon the adjoining mountains: these were followed by Archelaus's heralds, who commanded every one to retire to their own homes, whither they all went, and left the festival..."

Passover and the Feast are cancelled. The Nation is Unclean.
The Watch failed.

I have a small quibble as to whether the meaning devolves to a Pointer to an area or village, etc. No matter.
I still believe that the NT rewrite came from the Mishmarot Priesthood and not from the Corrupt High Priests and Roman Controlled Government. The Roman rewrite replaced the Priestly Apparatus with a "Jesus" loyal to Rome.

Thus, the Galilean Component of Mishmarot is replaced with a person who becomes Divine. This person comes from Galilee.
"Watch" and "Peter and the Guards" become Transvalued for the Cause of the New Religion.

Thanx, MrMacSon.

CW
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by StephenGoranson »

Charles Wilson, above, inpart:
"....I still believe that the NT rewrite came from the Mishmarot Priesthood and not from the Corrupt High Priests and Roman Controlled Government. The Roman rewrite replaced the Priestly Apparatus with a "Jesus" loyal to Rome...."
~~~~~~
I, SG, have read many posts by CW, and I have not found the slightest bit of evidence in them for the above-proposed sources of "rewrites."
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by Charles Wilson »

StephenGoranson wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 11:39 am I, SG, have read many posts by CW, and I have not found the slightest bit of evidence in them for the above-proposed sources of "rewrites."
...And I, CW, fully accept that statement with great sorrow.
You state, however, that you have read many Posts written by me. Have you read the Posts that show which Mishmarot Groups were on Duty for the Passover and Feast in Jerusalem in 4 BCE?

Tell me who you find.

CW
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by StephenGoranson »

Yes, of course, Charles; you mentioned this many times.
I find that, as far as relating to NT origin proposals, irrelevant.
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by MrMacSon »

Charles Wilson wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2023 7:56 am
Consider:

Mark 13: 33 - 37 (RSV):

[33] Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.
[34] It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch.
[35] Watch therefore -- for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning --
[36] lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
[37] And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."

Watch what? Who "Watches"?

Mark 13:32 provides a bit of context to vv.33-7 (as does the preceding parable of the fig tree in vv.28-31) :

32 Περὶ δὲ τῆς ἡμέρας ἐκείνης ἢ τῆς ὥρας, οὐδεὶς οἶδεν; οὐδὲ οἱ ἄγγελοι ἐν οὐρανῷ οὐδὲ ὁ Υἱός, εἰ μὴ ὁ Πατήρ.
32 Concerning now the day or the hour, no-one knows; not even the angels in heaven nor the Son, if not the Father

FWIW, the versions of 'watch' in the Greek are: agrypneite, grēgorē, grēgoreite

"master" in v.35 is κύριος, kyrios, aka Lord [of the house]

(Interestingly, "time" in v.33, in "when the time will come," is καιρός, kairos, which might provide or in fact be a pun with κύριος)

v.37 is the end of chapter 13. Chapter 14 begins with

"It would now be Passover and the Festival of Unleavened Bread were only two days away; And the ruling priests [ἀρχιερεῖς, archiereis] and the scribes were seeking how to seize him by treachery and kill him ..."

(and 14:3 describes Jesus as literally being anointed by a woman in the house of Simon the leper. When some grumbled, v.5, Jesus is said to have said, "Leave her alone...A good work she did towards Me ... She came beforehand to anoint My body for the burial ...Truly, now I say to you, wherever shall be proclaimed the good news [εὐαγγέλιον, euangelion] in whole the world, what this woman has done will be spoken of in memorial of her")
  • anointed as in being prepared (?)
The watching seems obsolete or even unnecessary, but wait, there's more ...

There's a lot of 'prepare the way' in ensuing verses [in Mark 14].

The master of the house where Jesus will have Passover with the disciples is termed in Greek, οἰκοδεσπότῃ, oikodespotē.

Mark 14:21:

"For the Son of Man is going as it is written of him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed—better for him if that man had not been born.”

But they get to go out to the Mount of Olives where, among other things,

v.27 Jesus said to them, “You will all fall away [or stumble], for it is written,

‘I will strike the shepherd,
. . . and the sheep will be scattered.’

Then

v.28 But, after having risen, I will go before you into Galilee

A rooster crowing is invoked in Mark 14:30 cf. 13:35

In v.33, at Gethsemane, Jesus takes aside the Jerusalem three from Galatians 1: Peter and James and John:

v.34 He says to them, "Very sorrowful is My soul, even to death; remain here and watch [γρηγορεῖτε, grēgoreite]"

Jesus goes forward a little and prays. He comes and finds 'them' asleep, And he says to Peter Simon [not sure if two people or one, Simon Peter]:

37b "Are you asleep? Were you not able to watch for one hour?"

38 Watch and pray ...

Jesus goes off to pray. When he comes back he again finds them asleep.

They're also found asleep a third time.

Then the hour comes for the Son of Man to be delivered into the hands of the sinful.

Judas comes with a crowd with μαχαιρῶν/machairōn and ύλων/xylōn [wooden clubs] from the ἀρχιερέων/archiereōn and the scribes! and the elders ...
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Sinouhe
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by Sinouhe »

Jesus being of Nazareth is a pesher from Isaiah 11:1.

Isaiah 11 was the messianic text par excellence in Second Temple Judaism and the branch was a “nickname” often used in second temple litterature to designate the Messiah.
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44662418-3890-4F2F-951F-CAE98BD66FE1.jpeg (57.81 KiB) Viewed 14217 times
Having Jesus born in a village that signifies the branch is therefore another Mark's Pesher to demonstrate that Jesus “fulfilled” the messianic expectations of his time.
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Re: Meaning of Nazareth?

Post by rgprice »

@Sinouhe Mark isn't concerned with Jesus fulfilling scriptural prophecies at all. Matthew is, but Mark is not. Mark uses literary allusions to the Jewish scriptures to reference passages that show God was displeased with the Jews and that is was God's plan to send foreign armies to punish them and destroy the temple because they had dishonored God. Matthew turned these literary references into claims of prophecy fulfillment.
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