Meaning of Nazareth?

[rgprice]

Here are the variants of "Nazareth" in Mark:

1:9 Nazaret / Ναζαρὲτ
1:24 Nazarēne / Ναζαρηνέ
10:47 Nazarēnos / Ναζαρηνός
14:67 Nazarēnou / Ναζαρηνοῦ
16:6 Nazarēnon / Ναζαρηνὸν

What is interesting is that it is only Mark 1:9 that uses Nazareth as a place name, all the rest call him a "Nazorean". Of course, this could fit the context of a place, like calling someone an "American", but it could also be a name of a group, like a "Republican".

Given that the corresponding passage in Mark 16 calls Jesus a "Nazorean", it makes me wonder if the verse did not originally read something like, "In those days Jesus the Nazarene came..."

In which case what was being referred to wasn't a place, but could have been sect or title.

[dbz]

In which case what was being referred to wasn't a place, but could have been sect or title.

Heb. Notsri yielding → Gk. Nazarene and Nazareth of the gospels. In this case, it was beyond the linguistic capacities of the evangelists to preserve the Semitic tsade (“ts”), which is an unvoiced phoneme and in the natural permutations of language yields the unvoiced “s” and not the voiced (aspirated) “z”: Tsforah→Sepphorah (wife of Moses); Tsarephat→Sarepta (place); Yitshak→Isaac; Tsidon→Sidon, etc. This is one clue that the true heirs of Yeshu ha-Notsri were the Natsuraiia (Mandeans) and the Nasarenes of Epiphanius (Panarion 18), while all the ancient groups and related places that have the “z” sound in their name are bogus (Mk 1:24, Mt 2:23, Acts 24:5, Panarion 29, Nazarenes, Nazoraeans, Nazara, Nazareth, etc).

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--Salm, René. "Yeshu ha-Notsri as founder of Christianity—Pt.13: The falsified biography | Mythicist Papers".

Comment by Richard Carrier May 6, 2017, 2:56 pm

[W]hat was wrong with his “Argument from Nazareth.” That argument is fully refuted in Proving History, with summary and additional data in On the Historicity of Jesus. Just check “Nazareth” in their indexes.

But the short of it is, the scriptures the Christians were then using predicted three things about the messiah (and we know this, because they say so): that he would be born in Bethlehem, that he would come from Galilee (even though Bethlehem isn’t in Galilee), and that he would be a “Nazorian,” which actually doesn’t mean someone from Nazareth (the word is significantly different, though similar enough to sound almost like it). Matthew tried to make his story fit all three predictions by choosing a town in Galilee that sounded almost like Nazors, and then inventing an excuse to have Jesus born in Bethlehem but “come from” Galilee. Just like Matthew had Jesus ride into Jerusalem on an adult and a baby donkey simultaneously (even though that’s ridiculous to impossible), in order to get what he believed was a more literal fit with scriptures.

Mark may have started this, by doing the same thing for the same reason, just as he started the donkey thing (only using a single donkey) to also match scriptures: just as Matthew over-literalizes to make everything fit while Mark is more judicious; hence Mark simply disregarded the Bethlehem scripture, and chose the Galilee and Nazorian narrative to run with instead. That’s if Mark 1:9 is genuine, though it might not be. It’s an unusually worded verse for Mark. And the only place he ever says Jesus came from Nazareth; when Mark’s narrative seems to consistently imply he came from Capernaum; and elsewhere Mark consistently called Jesus a Nazorian (before later scribal emendations, as we see from the manuscripts and Matthew and Luke’s use of Mark), which again, does not mean someone from Nazareth. Likewise Acts says the Christians were originally called Nazorians, even though none of them came from Nazareth, and Nazorian again doesn’t mean someone who did. And there are second century Christians who indeed say it meant something else.

[dbz]

In which case what was being referred to wasn't a place, but could have been sect...

...that deprecated the temple cult as did Paul.

• The Markan author may use Nazarine as a call back to the original celestial theology of Paul who held that he was now Uber-Torah as an IS XS devotee.

Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ ἦλθες	Iisoú Nazariné ílthes	Nazariné, you have come to destroy [evil.]
Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ἐστιν ἤρξατο κράζειν	Iisoús o Nazoraíos estin írxato krázein	Nazoraíos, Bartimaeus proclaims, [a god now an Unter-Torah mortal Jew is here.]
σὺ μετὰ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ	sý metá toú Nazarinoú	Nazarinoú devotees may not be true devotees.

[MrMacSon]

Original Word: Ναζαρέτ
Part of Speech: Proper Noun, Indeclinable
Transliteration: Nazaret or Nazara or Nazareth

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin

of uncertain derivation


Thayer's Greek Lexicon

... As respects the Hebrew form of the name, it is disputed whether it was

1. נֵצֶר, 'a sprout', 'shoot' (so, besides others, Hengstenberg, Christol. des A. T. ii., 124f. (English translation, ii., 106f); but cf. Gieseler in the Studien und Kritiken for 1831, p. 588f), or
2. נֹצְרָה, 'protectress', 'guard' (cf. 2 Kings 17:9; so Keim, as above), or
3. נִצֶרֶת, 'sentinel' (so Delitzsch in the Zeitschr. f. Luth. Theol. for 1876, p. 401), or
4. נְצֹרֶת, 'watch-tower' (so Ewald in the Götting. gelehrt. Anzeigen for 1867, p. 1602f).

Forms and Transliterations

Ναζαρα Ναζαρά Ναζαρὰ | Ναζαρετ Ναζαρέτ Ναζαρὲτ | Ναζαρεθ Ναζαρέθ Ναζαρὲθ

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Nazara .Nazará .Nazarà .| Nazaret Nazarét .Nazarèt | Nazareth Nazaréth Nazarèth

https://biblehub.com/greek/3478.htm

Ναζαρὲτ : Mark 1:9; John 1:46

Ναζαρέτ : Matthew 2:23; John 1:45

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Ναζαρὰ : Matthew 4:43

Ναζαρά : Luke 4:16

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Ναζαρὲθ : Matthew 21:11; Luke 1:26, 2:4

Ναζαρέθ : Luke 2:39, 2:51; Acts 10:38

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Original Word: Ναζαρέτ

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

... As respects the Hebrew form of the name, it is disputed whether it was

1. נֵצֶר, 'a sprout', 'shoot' (so, besides others, Hengstenberg, Christol. des A. T. ii., 124f. (English translation, ii., 106f); but cf. Gieseler in the Studien und Kritiken for 1831, p. 588f), or
2. נֹצְרָה, 'protectress', 'guard' (cf. 2 Kings 17:9; so Keim, as above), or
3. נִצֶרֶת, 'sentinel' (so Delitzsch in the Zeitschr. f. Luth. Theol. for 1876, p. 401), or
4. נְצֹרֶת, 'watch-tower' (so Ewald in the Götting. gelehrt. Anzeigen for 1867, p. 1602f).

https://biblehub.com/greek/3478.htm

• not so sure about that:
  watchtower - נוֹצְרִ֖ים, nō-wṣ-rîm - is in 2 Kings 17:9, but it seems to be a different word to נֹצְרָה (from above). I can't see anything like guard

[MrMacSon]

Ναζαρηνός

Forms and Transliterations:

Ναζαρηνε Ναζαρηνέ | Ναζαρηνον Ναζαρηνὸν | Ναζαρηνος Ναζαρηνός | Ναζαρηνου Ναζαρηνοῦ

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Nazarene Nazarené .| Nazarenon Nazarenòn .| Nazarenos Nazarenós .| Nazarenou .Nazarenoû
Nazarēne Nazarēné .| Nazarēnon Nazarēnòn .| Nazarēnos Nazarēnós .| Nazarēnou .Nazarēnoû

https://biblehub.com/greek/3479.htm

Ναζαρηνέ : Mark 1:24; Luke 4:34 : both Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ : in 'σοί Ἰησοῦ Ναζαρηνέ ἦλθες ἀπολέσαι'

Ναζαρηνός : Mark 10:47 : ὁ Ναζαρηνός

Ναζαρηνὸν : Mark 16:6 : τὸν Ναζαρηνὸν

Ναζαρηνοῦ : Mark 14:67; Luke 24:19 : both τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ

1. Mark 14:67
   
   
   .......μετὰ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ ἦσθα, τοῦ Ἰησοῦ

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   were with the Nazarenoû, ....... the Jesus
   
   
2. Luke 24:19
   
   
   ...περὶ Ἰησοῦ τοῦ Ναζαρηνοῦ ὃς ἐγένετο ἀνὴρ

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   .about Jesus the Nazarenoû who became a man
   
   

[Charles Wilson]

CW, these are separate locations of the 24 mishmarot, but their relevance here is not clear.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mi ... -ma-amadot

Talmudic Data:
As the priests were numerous and scattered throughout Palestine, it was impossible for all of them to officiate at the same time. An arrangement was therefore made whereby they were divided (in the final stage) regionally into 24 mishmarot (lit. "guards"; Ta'an. 4:2), which served in a regular weekly rotation

To Your Point, SG.

Activities"
On the three pilgrim festivals, all the 24 mishmarot officiated together (Suk. 5:7–8)

The best I can do right now is to posit that the Roman Rewrite was concerned with Jerusalem and the Priest being rewritten into the "Jesus" character. "Jesus" is from Galilee, yet if he was from Meriron or Jabnit someone would figure out the Roman Project. They left far too many Clues in any event. The Priest is esp. known through GJohn anyway.

As Atwill has stated, the problem was to make the Jews worship Caesar without them knowing it. Rewriting a Story built around a Jewish Story known in the area into a Roman story of a Loyal Teacher - and having TIME after the Fall of Judea - will get the job done. It doesn't have to be perfect. What is necessary is the Priesthood is known in the Roman Court. Not every detail of the Priesthood need be known. A wily Zakkai could survive the Temple Destruction and help Vespasian et.al. and still place some Clues. The Secondary Accomplishment is to move it all to Rome where the Real Control will be held. Which was done.

CW

[MrMacSon]

MrMacSon, above, in part:
"ne.tser (etc., a branch; a descendant) —> nazir —> Nazarite —> Nazarene/.(etc.) —> Natzeret"

and that post's first link includes:
"netser is transliterated to Nazir"

That is false. Those are two different words, and "transliterated" means reproduced into a different alphabet, but these both use the same alphabet.

At the time I was researching this, I had come across commentary [speculating] about translations and transliterations from Aramaic to Hebrew, and or vice-versa; and speculation about Hebrew [or Aramaic] versions of some texts having come from Syriac (or another language, perhaps Greek) and gone back into another language

[MrMacSon]

ναζιραῖον is in Judges 13:5 and 7 (Noun - accusative singular masculine)
(the English from Brenton's Septuagint translation; the Greek from the LXX)

Judges 13:3-7

3 And an angel of the Lord appeared to the woman, and said to her,
"Behold, thou art barren and hast not born; yet thou shalt conceive a son. 4 And now be very cautious, and drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat no unclean thing; 5 for behold, thou art with child, and shalt bring forth a son; and there shall come no razor upon his head, for the child shall be [sanctified] a naziraoin¹ to God from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel from the hand of the Phylistines."

5b ὅτι ἡγιασμένον ναζιραῖον ἔσται τῷ θεῷ τὸ παιδάριον ἐκ τῆς γαστρός καὶ αὐτὸς ἄρξεται σῴζειν τὸν Ισραηλ ἐκ χειρὸς ἀλλοφύλων

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5b 'for sanctified naziraoin will be to God the child from the womb ...'


6 And the woman went in, and spoke to her husband, saying,
"A man of God came to me, and his appearance was as of an angel of God, very dreadful; and I did not ask him whence he was, and he did not tell me his name. 7 And he said to me, 'Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bring forth a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat no unclean thing; for the child shall be holy a naziraoin² to God from the womb until the day of his death'."

7b ὅτι ναζιραῖον θεοῦ ἔσται τὸ παιδάριον ἀπὸ τῆς γαστρὸς ἕως ἡμέρας θανάτου αὐτοῦ

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7b 'for naziraoin [to] God shall be the child ...'

1 translated/transliterated in English as Nazarite

2 Nazarite is not in the Brenton's Septuagint translation but it is in most other English versions of v.7

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nā·zîr occurs once in Hebrew versions of the Bible, in Numbers 6:2, but han·nā·zîr occurs five times: all five also in Numbers 6

• See https://biblehub.com/hebrew/nazir_5139.htm for nā·zîr

• And https://biblehub.com/hebrew/hannazir_5139.htm for han·nā·zîr

nə·zîr is the Hebrew version in Judges (three times, including 13.4 and 13.7) and in Genesis 49.26 and Deuteronomy 33:16

• See https://biblehub.com/hebrew/nezir_5139.htm

eta
There's also a biblehub.com webpage for straight-out nazir : https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5139.htm


There's also han·nə·zi·rîm in Amos 2:12 : https://biblehub.com/hebrew/hannezirim_5139.htm

And lin·zi·rîm is also translated as Nazarites in Amos 2:11 : https://biblehub.com/hebrew/linzirim_5139.htm


(I have not yet checked what these have in the LXX versions but this search, https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/ ... rimary_0_1, only shows Judges 13.5 and 13.7)

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See https://biblehub.com/genesis/49-26.htm and search [Ctrl+F] for Naz

[MrMacSon]

Judges 13:3-7

3 And an angel of the Lord appeared1a to the woman, and said to her,
"Behold, thou art barren and hast not born; yet you shall bring forth a son.2 4 And now be very cautious, and drink no wine or strong drink,3a and eat no unclean thing; 5 for behold, you are with child, and shall bring forth a son;2 and there shall come no razor upon his head, for the child shall be [sanctified] a naziraoin to God from the womb; and he shall begin to save Israel from the hand of the Phylistines."

5b ὅτι ἡγιασμένον ναζιραῖον ἔσται τῷ θεῷ τὸ παιδάριον ἐκ τῆς γαστρός καὶ αὐτὸς ἄρξεται σῴζειν τὸν Ισραηλ ἐκ χειρὸς ἀλλοφύλων

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5b 'for sanctified naziraoin will be to God the child from the womb ...'

Luke 1

11 ... an angel of the Lord appeared1b to him/Zechariah standing at the right side of the altar of incense ...

13 .. the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear - γεννήσει - you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. Wine or strong drink 'not shall he drink',3b and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mother’s womb ...”


26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Ναζαρὲθ/Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary ...

31 ... you will conceive in womb and will bring forth a son2 ...

1a ὤφθη ἄγγελος κυρίου πρὸς τὴν γυναῖκα

1b ὤφθη δὲ αὐτῷ ἄγγελος Κυρίου

2 καὶ τέξῃ υἱόν

3a μὴ πίῃς οἶνον καὶ σικερα

3b οἶνον καὶ σικερα οὐ μὴ πίῃς

[MrMacSon]

Ναζαρὲτ : Mark 1:9; John 1:46

Ναζαρέτ : Matthew 2:23; John 1:45

Mark 1:9

..Ἰησοῦς ἀπὸ Ναζαρὲτ.. ..Iēsous apo Nazaret ..Jesus from Nazaert

John 1:45-6 : more convoluted/harder to translate than most : https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-46.htm

Ἰησοῦν υἱὸν τοῦ Ἰωσὴφ τὸν ἀπὸ Ναζαρέτ καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Ναθαναήλ, Ἐκ Ναζαρὲτ ... Jesus son of Joseph who [is] from Nazaret and said to him, Nathanael, "out of Nazaret ..."

Matthew 2:23

καὶ ἐλθὼν κατῴκησεν εἰς πόλιν λεγομένην Ναζαρέτ ὅπως πληρωθῇ τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ τῶν προφητῶν ὅτι Ναζωραῖος κληθήσεται and having come he dwelt in a city called Nazaret to fulfil that spoken through the prophets that a Nazoraios will he be called

We've all missed Ναζωραῖος in Matt 2:23 (?)